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A plane full of Indians behaving badly April 8, 2012

Posted by fetzthechemist in Musings, Uncategorized.
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I now fly quite often from San Francisco to Dubai. There are direct flights each way. Dubai is the main hub for Emirates Airlines, which makes it the connecting point for a lot of people flying to south Asia. The flights each way are often 80% to 90% south Asians, and the vast bulk of those are from Indian – either those from India or non-native Indian-Americans flying to and from the mother country. There are a smattering of Pakistanis and Sri Lankans. Both exhibit quite different behaviours which are more acceptable to my western ideals.

The flight to Dubai is EK 226, the one to SFO is EK 225. I’ve flown them about a dozen times in the past three years (yes, I am a gold-level frequent flyer). So I have observed Indians on crowded airplanes many, many times. No flight has been a real pleasure. Why? Indians make the worst flying companions. Bad behaviors to the extreme in variety and frequency.

You think I am being racist or biased? No, I just see the same behaviours over and over again.

Examples:

Indian children are seldom under control and never admonnished for bothering others. They run up and down the aisles throughout the flights, often yelling and screaming in glee – even during the midflight period of lowered lights when many people want to sleep. The parents act intentionally oblivious or it does not register in their minds that noisy, unruly kids on an airplane are not in good form.

Indians are so used to a crowd of jostling people that they bump into you, step on your feet hard, and such things with nary an “excuse me” or “I a sorry”.

The world view is self-centerred and ignores others. Hindu Indians eat special vegetarian meals. They get served first and much earlier than most people. The cabin crew then starts serving all of the other passengers. When these Hindus finish their meals, unlike most non-Indian people who wait with food trays in front of them, invariably some Indians do two things. The more “polite” ones get up with their full used trays and walk to hand them to the crew trying to feed the other passengers. The “impolite” ones just put their trays in the aisle, as if it was outside of a hotel room, ignoring the fact that the crew needs that aisle to feed others and that others might want to walk to the restrooms.

Indians who cannot sleep through the rest period will get up and congregate, talking loudly between themselves. This often is not just near the restrooms, but anywhere they feel like. They do not care that it is not in their seating area, they deserve the right to make noisy conversation in yours. Once again, if one bumps into you (aisle seats are terrible for this even if you lean away from the aisle) or step into your row and onto your feet, no apologies.

Indians do not want to board by rows or deplane by them. Annoucements for business class/ first class/ high flyer miles passengers invariably means most of the passengers get up and crowd the gate area. Deplaning is more chaotic than most other trips. My last trip, upon landing in SFO, but before the aircraft was to the gate and the seatbelt sign went off, there were two announcements that there was a medical emergency and passengers should remain seated until the medical people came on board and removed the ill passenger. This made no difference. The plane pulled up to the gate, the seatbelt sign remained lit, but a horde of Indians crowded the aisle in a couple of seconds (that was so exasperating that I yell at the idiots in my section that they were told to sit because there was a medical emergency….the response was a couple dozen looks of uncomprehending pairs of sheep eyes.

A fw things have been singular, so far, but reflect this unaware attitude. The woman who was boarding towards the end who did not find a space in the overhead bin saved for her seat and just stood there blocking others from getting to their seats and yelling about how her luggage space had been stolen. The guy who upon getting to his seat, the window inside of my aisle seat wanted to go to the restroom even while people were still boarding (Excuse me, Mr. Dumb Indian, but there are restrooms next to the waiting room and it is a 16-hour flight, are you going to do this a couple of dozen times?)

Clueless, egocentric, rude to the maximum.

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Comments»

1. Dan - April 9, 2012

Not to mention the smell. On a resent trip with a plane stocked largely of those from the sub-continent, my better half remarked on the nasty smell in the plane. She was quite horrified when I had to point out to her that it was the people! I suppose it’s largely due to the highly aromatic nature of their food, but differing hygiene standards also play a large role…

fetzthechemist - October 31, 2012

I know that attitude, too. On a recent flight, I had the aisle seat. I board early because I now have so many miles, But on this one flight I got to my seat to find a woman wiyh a baby and a three-year old sitting in my seat. She wanted the aisle seat instead of her middle seat. She first acted like it was a mistake, but could I take the window seat? That was where the three-year old was supposed to sit. Then she got huffy and subborn that I would not accommodate her. She even started to make a loud scene so that her fellow countrymen would know and probably interceed on her side. I spent the long flight stuck there because either her baby or child was sleeping. It was the last time I let one of them have their way. I will call the vrew and even ask that someone like that find another seat.

josephh - February 1, 2014

I can’t believe you people, honestly how disrespectful can you get? Going to an international school, there are certain things that I find totally unacceptable. Like your behaviour, for example. And yes, I believe that if she did have two young children, she does deserve to be given an ails seat so that they can get out easily. Don’t be so racist.

Mai - May 20, 2014

Hello Fetzthechemist,

I read many of your comments which came out of frustration and numerous observation and experience, first hand. All taken well. I am a Indian by birth, first generation immigrant. For the past 15 years I too have been experiencing and observing many things that you discussed. I agree on many view points that you have brought upon the Indians that you have been traveling with you. I think, Indians can take on changes where they can and at the same time others who are looking at us and judging should also consider many factors and the people of western world should learn to be more tolerant and understanding. I do not think every one does what they do, knowingly. Inspite of all the education, India still is a poor country with limited resources,basic necessities. That surely reflects in how they behave. Indian norms and the style is very different than the western world. The demeanor may be to twist and turn their body and walk softly where there is tight space in an airline, instead of saying “Sorry”. Indians born in India are less vocal but react more with gestures. Many Indians extend their hand as a support or pat at back instead of saying “Sorry” and that has been their way for generation. Picking up new habits and lifestyle is indeed difficult. I strongly think, who so ever it is, we should always think of the fellow passenger’s and the surrounding before acting. I can only wish that Indians talk about it and display more friendly and helpful behavior. We all know how difficult it is to be on long flights.How difficult it is when our parents has to travel alone who does not know the English language and USA does not provide VISA’s to other family members who can travel and be helpful. Sometimes to travel with children. Change is good only when we are willing to embrace and we believe that it gives a meaning to our experience.

Wilson - July 12, 2014

I’m Indian too and haven’t been abroad much except for one trip to Thailand 5 years ago. It was a wonderful experience for me to live in another country and culture different from my own and what struck me the most was the absolute regard for things like personal space, clean streets, common courtesy, people saying sorry to you if they bumped into you accidentally.

Seeing that Thailand isn’t really a developed nation but in the midst of political turmoil and India is economically way better off, it’s reasonable to argue there are some things money can’t buy. And one of this is called etiquette. It was very refreshing for me to have a break from the uncouthness of Indian culture and dirty personal hygiene. Even Indians who are good-looking (many Indian women are really attractive), educated and rich, they’ll suddenly shock you with their impolite, condescending behaviour.

I see most foreigners well-behaved. Unfortunately, most Indians have no sense of etiquette or manners. The richer you are in India, the more you feel entitled and it becomes your manifest destiny to get away with things because you believe having money has earned you the right to behave like an asshole. That’s pretty much the way of life in India. Granted there are plenty of nice, normal Indians like me who won’t stoop to that level but as a nation, we will never get to enjoy common courtesy.

Coming to the main point, I had a wonderful trip to Thailand but my return trip back home to India got ruined by an Indian couple. So this bitch was ensconced in the aisle seat and there was a male passenger on the window seat. I thought they weren’t really related and being an economy super-saver class passenger, I guess you should be grateful to take whatever seat is allocated to you as you’re paying the least amount of money. Fair enough.

I took my middle seat without whining and this woman was giving me cold and ugly stares for asking her to shift her butt a little so I could get in. The man on the window seat turned out to be the husband and it seemed the couple had an ugly verbal spat a few minutes before. Clearly, they didn’t want to talk to each other. So, guess who gets the stick for it? When I politely asked the lady to sit next to her husband as it’s obvious their two seats would have been booked together, she gives me this ugly look yelling “It doesn’t make any difference.” I didn’t really enjoy being sandwiched between a couple angry and pissed at each other and wouldn’t have minded taking the window seat either just to get away from them.

Well both of them occupied a lot of space despite the fact that they were slim. I really didn’t get the opportunity to visit the toilet (luckily it was a 4 hour flight only) as I couldn’t really bring myself to waking up this bitch who was SNORING loudly in such a brief flight. The way they were eating was pathetic: utensils lying everywhere, dirty water, uneaten foodstuffs and angry, acrimonious banter. I wasn’t really interested in their domestic problems but couldn’t even have asked them to spare me as I didn’t want to ruin my positive mood.

I tried to calm myself with a glass of red wine and this bitch had the gall to order me, “Would you mind not drinking right now as I don’t like the smell of alcohol? It gives me head-ache” WOW what gave her the right to boss me around? The husband was literally looking out the window and didn’t open his mouth even once in the entire flight duration (I can understand him: if that was my wife, I would have done the same).

Well, this overall return flight to India would portend of how things would have been in the future after landing in India. Hot, dusty air at Mumbai airport, rude, inconsiderate customs staff, grovelling touts everywhere, and noise….LOUD noise. Welcome back to India.

I’ve really decided I will never go for vacationing abroad again. It feels better for me to numb my civilized senses and live in this country than to travel elsewhere and realize bitterly how ugly we are as a people.

desertrob - October 12, 2014

@wilson.. I am a flight attendant and if youre ever on my flight I’ll give you a free upgrade.

Sam - May 28, 2015

Whilst I am Indian, I do understand there are some issues that Indians

– Like when I have now moved into a new room where my flatmates are polish, british , pakistani and saudian and I’m A TOTAL MISFIT OUT HERE!
– Whilst the polish couple so lovingly eat in plates and leave it all out like trash, waiting for the weekend when the cleaner comes in to wash those dried out plates with some fungus growing on the leftovers. I – THE INDIAN AM THE DIRTY ONE!
– Whilst the Arabic guy goes into the toilet before me, leaving the place ALL WET including the toilet seat. And I happen to leave the toilet after my quick shower( as I refuse to use the commode anymore), the Polish moron will point fingers at me accusingly that I have left the toilet seat wet! I – THE INDIAN AM THE DIRTY ONE! ( The saudi was sweetly gang up with him and actually believes I am the one who is wetting the toilet lol)
– Whilst the British girl walks around farting openly and thinks she is over everyone else in the house, leaving those stinkers all over, drinking and ALMOST ALWAYS VOMITING over the weekend. I – The INDIAN am the dirty one!
– Whilst the Pakistani clearly so loud, and always screaming even at 2 am in the night and playing his FUCKED UP BHANGRA music day and night with woofers.YUP I’M INDIAN I’M THE FUCKING CUNT HERE !

– And finally, to all the Cabin Crew on here! JUST BE NICE AND TRY TENDING TO THE INDIANS SOMETIMES. THEY MAY JUST STOP DEMANDING .
– Its a HORRIBLE feeling to see everyone get served whilst we keep waiting when we are nice! YOU then leave us with no option but to be obnoxious and demanding for a service we just paid for!

AS FOR SMELL, YES THAT IS TRULY AN INDIAN AND PAKISTANI PROBLEM! CANT SAY NO TO THAT ONE. WE JUST LOVE OUR ONIONS AND GARLIC!

@ josephh - May 29, 2015

Josephh, it is rude to take a seat not assigned to you, whether or not you have young children. It is in no way racist to ask for what you paid for. This woman was clearly in the wrong, with a rude and entitled attitude. It sounds to me you are being the racist.

Neo - August 4, 2016

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-08-04/crashing-burning-planes-don-t-stop-passengers-from-grabbing-their-luggage
Every race reacts the same way. Racism is usually associated with lack of education. writer of this article can do well with some informed reading and educating himself with meaningful knowledge. Or he can choose to live in oblivion and continue to post low quality works like this.

Supriya - February 27, 2014

Dear Dan

While in do accept that we indians can be fairly intruding and loud, i’d like to make one thing clear. You cannot challenge the hygiene level of most of the indians. Our food might be aromatic, which i think most of the people from your own community quite enjoy, we as a community believe in and follow higher standards of hygiene than most people around.

It is also an integral part of our religious teachings. Would appreciate next time please think before you make such remarks!

Cheers

John - April 2, 2014

Supriya –

I routinely attend lunches and dinners with many Eastern Indian IT consultants here in the United States, and I regretfully have to say that their body odor is consistently, and overwhelmingly unpleasant. What “standards of hygiene” are you referring to? Do they involve warm water, a liberal amount of soap and/or shampoo, and underarm deodorant?

I’m attempting to be as honest as possible here – can you help explain this to me?

John

Ahmed - June 8, 2014

Surpiya

With me trying to come forth as respectful as I possibly can be, I do really find it hard to believe what you are saying. Having lived in Dubai for 16 years, I’ve grown up around Indians (Keep in mind that 51% of Dubai’s 2,000,000 population is Indian alone), with there being one issue that I find to be consistent and ongoing; the pungent body odour of many regular Indians around me. Whether I’m riding a jam-packed metro train on a Friday afternoon, or simply walking past a few Indians in a busy mall on the weekend, the horrible odour gets me every time. I do believe the food does play a key role in creating such odour, however, it’s much more than that. I can’t really comment on the causes, as I don’t really know what’s done to create such a pungent smell in the first place, but what I can say is that the smell is just unpleasant.

I just believe that if many average Indians knew about the odour, which I honestly think they don’t, as their noses have somewhat grown immune to the smell, then perhaps they may take up measures to attempt to improve their hygiene.

Love - July 16, 2014

Dear, your “higher standards of hygiene” are nowhere to be seen. Or nowhere high enough for others to consider it hygiene at all.

Others have given clear examples of why that comment is in fact accurate. But I’ll give you another one just to further prove that statement.

If you have ever flown with Emirates Airlines, you see that passengers are handed a hot WHITE towel after boarding. When the crew comes to collect those WHITE towels, they return grey, brown, yellow, redish… etc. And that grime just comes from the hands and face (although some decide it is ok to clean their feet as well, which I find utterly disgusting). Do you think a clean person with “higher standards of hygiene” would give back a towel that dirty? No.

I’m sorry if you are so used to the stink you cannot smell it anymore. But others do, and it’s not pleasant. You might want to update those standards some time soon for the sake of the world.

Indira - June 22, 2015

I second that Supriya for clarifying this. I also want to add that Indians, by large rude and least disrespectful in the world. Our culture is based on strong values especially for hygiene and respecting others is taught before learning to read write or earn money. This article seems like an attempt to spread hatred and is race targeted. People sweat all the time. People eat foods all the time. I find it interesting for comments on vegetarianism. Not all Indians are vegetarians and also Vegetarians are world wide. By the way, Indians are often unfairly treated and so I refuse to believe that Indians get served first. What is being served when depends on the respective airline. I know from experience. I haven’t found Indians who ignore their children really. As far as comments on kids go, you probably aren’t used to being around kids. All kids tend to be excited in airplanes and each family (regardless of country of origin) have own way of parenting. Rather than right an article based on one single experience, I suggest you to travel around the world and see how Indians tolerate people even in worst situations.

Indira - June 22, 2015

I second that Supriya for clarifying this. I also want to add that Indians, by large are never rude and least disrespectful in the world. Our culture is based on very strong values.. .Especially hygiene and respecting others is taught before learning to read write or earn money. This article seems like an attempt to spread wrong information and build hatred of all Indians. People sweat all the time regardless of race. People eat foods all the time and adore Indian foods. You may have seen a specific community that loves to bring their own food for religious reasons. I find it interesting for comments on vegetarianism. Not all Indians are vegetarians and also Vegetarians are world wide. By the way, Indians are often unfairly treated while travelling, so I refuse to believe that Indians get served first and so well. What is being served when depends on the respective airline. I know from experience. I haven’t found Indians who ignore their children really. As far as comments on kids go, you probably aren’t used to being around kids. All kids tend to be excited in airplanes and each family (regardless of country of origin) have own way of parenting. Rather than write an article based on one single experience, I suggest you to travel around the world and see how Indians tolerate people even in worst situations. Be well … Speak well of one and all. Namaste.

gbilios - October 3, 2015

think before you speak Supriya. do you like having dog food shoved in your mouth? this is how indians treat people on flights. you think people around you are scum? it is very rude to deny a person’s amenity rights. its also very rude to take someone’s designated seat. you are not the only one on the flight. i know this a late reply but please consider using your brain before you speak.

Manish - February 5, 2017

Dont even talk about Hygiene… I have seen Americans not even washing hands after using restrooms…literally!! being Indian, I am proud to say that I have higher hygiene standards than my fellow american coworkers and friends.

Lamar odell - April 24, 2014

I was on a plane once with a bunch of white people who were getting drunk and obnoxious and one of them threw up in the aisle. Also, there are a whole bunch of crazy white people who have gone into schools and shopping malls and movie theaters and churches and hospitals and post offices and shot lots of people to death and white priests everywhere that rape little boys and college football coaches that rape little boys and entire college administrations that cover up the raping of little boys for decades and the white guy who kidnapped that little girl in Purcell Oklahoma and killed her and ate her and then those white boys that ran over that old black guy and the white guys who tied that black guy in Texas to some trucks and ripped him apart….. But I’m sure they all make much better traveling companions than these smelly rude Indians.

crystal - April 24, 2014

This blog is about how horrific people’s experiences have been when travelling on a sector with Indian people as the dominant segment of passengers.

If you want to bash “white people” whatever that is, that start your own blog. Moron.

Paddy - April 24, 2014

@The real Canadian,Crystal,I’m sorry to say that If we rate racism from 1 to 10 you will be at 10. Your forefathers were immigrants. They brutally killed aboriginals,massacred them. Deliberately they gave bibles to aboriginals, violently killed who didn’t follow and finally aboriginal culture almost vanished. and then they brought Africans with them and called slaves. All of the sudden in 20th century their descendents from these two America countries talk about culture,world peace..and all the bull shit. I don’t know in Americas, but for rest of the world Canada means having No opinion,You just follow USA blindly.what about that? I went to Italy recently..total flight they were talking very very loud. finally I found that their language itself has that tendency of higher pitch,is that mean something,? Don’t hesitate you piece of shit..lets say 90% Italians speak very loud and they don’t care about neighbors

fetzthechemist - April 24, 2014

Paddy, you are picking and choosing your examples, being disingenuous. This may be rhetorically clever,muddying the waters by pointing out things that are rarer occurrences or done by a few individuals. My original post and the subsequent blogs are based on numerous flights, so different passengers. Yet the behaviours of a large proportion of Indians is the same over and over. Selfish, oblivious, rude and disrespectful to others. There are numerous Indians who chime in supporting this since they also see it on flights. The point is no longer does it happen, or even why, but why are there no efforts to educate travelers from India that there are different behaviours on plane flights outside of India?

Crys Louise - April 24, 2014

Your pathetic and clearly low class.

You language is absolutely reflective of this.

Do you even know my “background” or my “color of skin”?

NO you do not. Your comments are simply laughable and really not worth any in depth response.

Canada is a country only of immigrants you fool, many which are Indian, however we as Canadians act like Canadians.

Which is kind, courteous and civilized, regardless of your skin color or actual “nationality’, YOU are Canadian and follow social norms.

The fact is, a well worldly person such as myself can say, that yes indeed it is fact that travelling on any flight with Indian people as the dominant passenger is an utter nightmare.

FACT. So stop your annoying nonsense and create your own blog, as the purpose of this one is a discussion that clearly MANY MANY MANY people like myself have experienced when travelling on an aircraft with Peoples from India.

Not Sri Lanka, or Pakistan or Bagledash or Maldives or Seychelles.

Simply India. Ok?

Paddy - April 24, 2014

oho worldly person..I am sorry If I offend you.Poor thing.. having NO opinion also an opinion… But you are the proof that you guys (real Canadians) too have some own thinking capability and there is no coconut in your heads. I got you..you are angry just because Canada is full of Indian Immigrants. Show your anger on your governments for allowing us first place. Don’t come to Inet and loose control. get well soon.

Nikky - April 25, 2014

@Paddy: Interesting, you get that responses (low class,fool,moron,pathetic,rhetoric,disingenuous ) just because you touched their open secret box.They killed aboriginals..so what?They changed their religion ..so what? They called Africans, Slaves and treated them as shit for 100-150 years..so what? Aboriginal culture long gone..so what? Slave women were given as gifts and exchanged at their weddings..so what? They are not bloody racists..They used first nuclear bomb on innocent Japanese citizens..So what? They are peace lovers..just attacked only around 50 countries after WW-2,so what? They hardly take a shower in a week..so what,,they are not smelly..oho deo covers it? East Indians take bath twice a day..still what that curry smell?Guys please don’t show your first world country supremacy on world web too,let it be free.

fetzthechemist - April 25, 2014

To all Indian posters trying to be smarmy and clever (a downside of having an education system modeled after the British one), this is not a blog about the history and values of various nations and cultures. It is about the behavior in the current times, asking why Indians stand out compared to other nationalities by having a great portion of uncouth, boorish, and rude people? Burying your heads in the sand by pointing out distant past things in other nations is irrelevant. This is the clever person’s defense, misdirecting the discussion, trying to steal this thread. It only show that Indians are even more egocentric and arrogant.

Erich - April 25, 2014

Dear Fetzechemist,
When you corner and criticise our culture and doubting how our society and Nation functioning by superpolating and exaggerating some rude behaviours to wider audience on your blog definately fingers points to your culture too,it is common not Ego driven,And things what they said were truth.History is written about your founding members, forefathers.Accept it ,lets face it and get over.As you said it was not clever person’s defense instead they are finding some mistakes,faults (I don’t have proper word for this,excuse me) in American societies. And one guy commented all Indian people smell, And total flight is filled curry,body odour because of people? what an imagination? Personal hygeine depends on individual to individual not on Nationality. Moving on, have you ever seen New yorkers behaving properly in subways?I never heard a simple sorry,excuse or a head nod gesture in any subway station.It is not my experience,(forgive me all Newyorkers)New yorkers are some how notorious for being rude. From this should I infer something about their culture?,Do I have any right to say Newyorkers doesn’t know how to behave,under previliged,(Not to say unruly,wild animals,smelly etc) blah blah?Did you ever think why they might be like that? reasons might be many,bloody tourists,heavy crowds,frustations,.we never know. It is not my lame excuse just to defend someones unruly behaviour,but I want to say that all Indians are not like that and what you guys saw might be 0.000001% of our population.Don’t derive conclusionsjust by watching “slumdog millionaire” .Next time when you see any unruly guys please tell them how they are causing inconvience. Please please don’t make this a cultural debate and National hatred.

crystal - April 27, 2014

Paddy your just being super annoying. The blog is about how awful people’s experience is when travelling with a plane full of Indian’s-nothing more…ok?
As for Canada being full of Indians,??? Again you fool, it is full of every culture and background and then mixed some more to make it the most amazing country to live in.
I’m black myself, and I work with many Indians…all amazing people.

My family and I came from the Carribean 20 years into Canada !!! GOT IT??
Canada is a place for everyone, so take all that sh*T you said about slaves and whatever else…cuz you assume I am “white”.when in fact, I am black and still think traveling with a plane full of Indians is a nightmare…ok??? Doesn’t mean society as whole!!!!

All 50 flights I took to Indian cannot be a generalization…not possible…each flight was just a nightmare.

Remember what this blog is about.

paddy - April 27, 2014

Crytal, you have similarity with some kind of virus found in humans,no matter what vaccine they use this virus adopts and develops antigen.From real Canadian now you became Carribean and black.. if we make you more angry next step what you become I donno.I can imagine how genuine your 50 flights and how true your experiences. I talked about slavery just to refresh readers memory what kind of great culture America was , I just want to stop arguments here because no matter what I say you hate Indians and you are bloody racist.if your messages are shown even a school kid can picture what kind of sick person you are . Except you everyone else are making sense, trying to do constructive argument and trying to defend their comments on this blog..You lost it ..get well soon.

good bye.

Crystal - April 28, 2014

Ok Paddy, you win….I am a racist. Is that what you need to hear?

Let me explain to be clear. that as an ex Emirates cabin crew who travelled extensively, it is common knowledge that the worst sector is always anywhere to India.Not Sri Lanka (People are lovely) or Baglesdash (Kind and considerate) or China (busy but polite) or Africa ( Funny and courteous).

I am sure you are just an amazing guy, but please be careful with your choice of words. Racist is a harsh term, one in which you should not use so loosely. Leads me to believe that in fact you are exactly that after your previous comments regarding some nonsense speech about “white” people and slavery. Considering I am black, I know all too well the history behind that.

Just be calm. Show yourself to be that kind, polite and courteous Canadian and then maybe I will take what you say into any consideration.

Mathew Abraham - August 7, 2014

Grt reply. I mean people do forget, if somebody toils in damn hot sun he is bound to sweat and be smelly (the smell is because of the bacterial action, which everybody has). You can avoid taking bath in winters and put a deo (is that hygienic). Racist are mentally deranged people. They tend to find faults in everything. I went to India to Kashmir and Shimla (cold places)- no smell from anybody reason, no sweat no smell. i guess so.

Sanjay - October 4, 2014

To the idiot who compared subway travel in New York being as noisy as a plane ride with Indians, we are not talking about subway rides here. We are talking about plane travel with Indians. Those things with wings?

desertrob - October 12, 2014

youre a goose

lucah gnohc - March 27, 2015

Cool story bro… it’s perfectly alright for indians to behave like cunts and stink like shit BECAUSE white people commit heinious crimes.

gbilios - October 3, 2015

these things do happen and western people acting this way should not be tolerated. i was on a flight from dubai to athens and one indian shit in his seat. how often do europeans get drunk and disorderly on flights?

An Asian - December 7, 2015

Paddy, if you wanna do it that way, how about a daughter killer for marrying the wrong guy? HAhahha….

American - December 7, 2015

White people in general have manners and they don’t stink.

PolishKnight - December 7, 2015

[Examples of “crazy white people” committing murder and engaging in horrific acts]
“But I’m sure they all make much better traveling companions than these smelly rude Indians.”

I was chuckling at that remark because in interviews with the neighbors of serial killers, they often say such things as “He was such a good neighbor” and “He was always polite.”

American - December 8, 2015

I will take a bunch of drunken white people any time over stinky Indians and Pakistanis who maybe have a hidden agenda to hurt US. Watch the news moron. They say that it is “the shit you eat that makes you stink”, but I disagree, because I like and eat some Indian food but I take showers. You will be banned from entering our country soon.

American - December 8, 2015

The reason you hear about all this is because we have an open society and freedom of speech represented in the media outlets. There are more sick incidents of rape, murder and human rights violations in your country of India and also Pakistan not to mention Saudi Arabia and the Arab Countries in the Gulf Region.
There are hundreds of thousands of Indians, Pakistanis and Bangladesh Citizens living in inhuman conditions in the UAE, Saudi Arabia and Kuwait in labor camps. Their passports are confiscated until they are allowed to go back home.
Many of these workers die on the job due to unsafe conditions. Falling from buildings and crossing roads and getting hit by young locals driving Ferrari cars. And all the locals have to do is pay “blood money” average of $80,000 per life.
God Bless The USA.

Rudeindian - May 19, 2016

LMFAO!!

wvmmrh - February 10, 2017

at least they’re just sharing a flight and you don’t have to live around them,lol

Hippe Town - March 11, 2017

Namaste,

What I believe is that Indians have been trained to survive, rise-above and make most of any situation or resources. This mentality of utilizing everything to the maximum creates a stigma to demand a bit more which to the cabin crew gets reflected in a rude way because of their way to speak which is gradually changing, people are becoming polite, younger generation realizes the importance of courtesy.
On the other hand the westerners have been provided with the idea of an extremely comfortable life-style which makes them feel excessively uncomfortable on seeing other people behave inappropriately in their opinion (since it is subjective), and the lady with the babies example that was given somewhere in the thread, she wasnt being manipulative she was just expecting you to understand, since in India she would have been given the comfort of having a better seat, although if she came of stronger in asking for your seat i think that was because she was frustrated with handling the kids which i guess westerners would understand having the concept of having nannies in their countries.
Also one more point would be that, like abolishing slavery required time and change of mind-set, and even till date there is an awe of white supremacy not in all but some people, point being that every change requires time.
Similarly like you see some Indians accepting the points mentioned above and some show denial, some show patriotism by targeting the other race. With time everything evolves physically and mentally.
The Indian mentality is still narrow-minded in many minds but they too eventually shall succumb to the western mind-set like the new generation that follows it extensively now.
So things would happen the western way soon although i would love it if every culture just flourished as is without having the need to follow the other one.
I love everyone from all the races but sometime even i get frustrated looking at the Indian mentality of leaving and boarding earliest or the western mentality of feeling superior but in the end i still love you all.

P.S – Thank you Indian Psychedelic Hippies for attaining this mind-set. Thank you Dr. Hoffman. Thank you for creating the perfect time-space equation for our existence our beloved nature.

mehta suriua - May 7, 2014

Many cultures including indians, dont use deodrants as part of their hygiene. It needs to be applied daily. People. I know because i am an indian/american.

I found that mitchum to be the best and losts at least a day, try it please.

Krishnan - June 4, 2014

100%. That was my thought as well. No deodorant is the reason for the BO. The other issues, since the original post talks mostly about the Indian behaviour, yes, it is found. Unfortunately, it is True…

And, i am a person who lives in India and travel a lot and am many a times feel, and do discuss among our friends and family on such behaviour.

We should be prepared to take this in stride…

Ahmed - June 8, 2014

Glad to see several people actually acknowledge the problem and attempt to find ways at fixing it, unlike the other idiots on this blog who are constantly in denial..

desertrob - October 12, 2014

Indians do pay alot of attention to their personal hygiene, however, the unpleasant odour is because they dont wear freshly washed clothes. I realise I’m generalising.

Anushka - September 9, 2016

Dear All

You have to understand that the indians who come to UAE are not so well off and lack education etc.Their main aim is to earn money and feed the family.
Now talking to hygiene-please read the letter written by Alexander and in book Indica.
Indian standards have been high long time back,now after the 200 years british rule things have changed,the worlds biggest human induced famine was in india done by british.
If you talk about the ellite class then starting form most expenisve wedding to most efficient doctors and scientists in the world.

We are not hollow people neither we dump our parents after puberty like in west nor a daughter lives with her 5th step dad.

India is the only existing civilization on earth.Egyptian civilizqtion or mesapotania civilization,roman etc all these civilizations have been wiped off my jews Catholics or arabs..
There is no one from pharos family etc..even the blood line is missing.
But India is the only civilization which flourished.
6000BC (before christ ) we still have recorded texts of surgery which is carbon dated by USA for affermation.

So if u are a white or blond or anyone please dont compare your self to indians living in UAE or from any gulf country who are hand to mouth..

Jeffers - December 20, 2014

Individuals like you, Dan and “fetzthechemist”, especially your family members due to obvious genetics, stink of faeces and urine because you do not properly clean yourselves after going to the toilet, despite having access to clean water! Not to mention the B.O, wow! Have you people not heard of deodorant or bathing? Your penis’s resemble exactly that of a maggot on a fish hook, or a piece of rice. You get so upset by this that you “cuckold” yourselves out of pure stupidity. AHAHAHA!

Your civilisation was established like a “trojan cancer”. You appear in other parts of the world desperate for help relying on the good will of the natives, and then you spread your diseases like a cancer and destroy their civilisation. You usurp their natural resources and deny them education and dignity by bribing a puppet ruler who is cruel or corrupt or both! You export your filth such as pornography, even then illegal types, as well as your perverted, deviant cultural traits such as child abuse and slavery.

You don’t like these people? Why don’t you invent a time machine and prevent your fellow swine from going there in the first place? AHAHAHA! Well Porky Pigs?

Anushka - September 9, 2016

Dear All

You have to understand that the indians who come to UAE are not so well off and lack education etc.Their main aim is to earn money and feed the family.
Now talking to hygiene-please read the letter written by Alexander and in book Indica.
Indian standards have been high long time back,now after the 200 years british rule things have changed,the worlds biggest human induced famine was in india done by british.
If you talk about the ellite class then starting form most expenisve wedding to most efficient doctors and scientists in the world.

We are not hollow people neither we dump our parents after puberty like in west nor a daughter lives with her 5th step dad.

India is the only existing civilization on earth.Egyptian civilizqtion or mesapotania civilization,roman etc all these civilizations have been wiped off my jews Catholics or arabs..
There is no one from pharos family etc..even the blood line is missing.
But India is the only civilization which flourished.
6000BC (before christ ) we still have recorded texts of surgery which is carbon dated by USA for affermation.

So if u are a white or blond or anyone please dont compare your self to indians living in UAE or from any gulf country who are hand to mouth..

wvmmrh - February 10, 2017

Good grief…congratulations..you write like a 13 year old child…

Vrinda - January 3, 2015

Dan, what do you and your better half smell like? What are your hygiene habits like? You walk around smelling like you just came out of the shower all the time. Indians are more hygienic than a lot of whites and blacks I know. You make it sound like you people are the only hygienic ones on earth.

Manish - February 5, 2017

Cannot agree more!

tychester - May 28, 2015

Dan,
Am surprised reading this comment of yours .
It’s funny that none of non Indians wash their butt once done. It stinks, however non Indians are institutionalized to this stink and assume it to be natural .

inaflyingtincanwithyou - September 12, 2015

Wow! This blog post has racked up quite a commenting crowd. I recently deplaned in Mumbai and did Google ‘why are Indians rude travelers’ but surprisingly this post wasn’t in the first few results. As an Indian, I dread sharing international flights with my compatriots. Allow me to vent 🙂

There are the annoying bits that I can work around: ignoring seat rows and rushing to board, stuffing overhead bins with oversized luggage, general inconsiderateness.

And then there are the aspects that make the flight dreadful. The smells … no deodarant, kicking off your shoes to share the toejam odours, belches and gases (ugh!) and the complete lack of personal space concept.

While fetzthechemist has expressed himself in quite racist terms, what he’s said isn’t untrue. Comment on fellow travelers and interneters!

American - November 22, 2015

I wish that Indians stop to fly Turkish Airlines so I can book my 1st flight. I stopped flying Emirates, Etihad and Qatar Airways because they are onboard on all routes to and from the USA. Indians have an obnoxious attitude, no manners and they absolutely smell awful. They are also backstabbers and liars. They are the biggest manipulative race I have ever seen. They get you angry then play the victim.
I worked with them and unfortunately was forced to fly with them. Even business and 1st class their attitude and smell are the same.

Dev -Proud Indian - January 23, 2016

If you have alternatives, work on it..don’t blame an entire nation..surely everyone pays for flights including Indians..you can always chose a flight where there are only Whites or Arabs and no south Asians.. I think we south asians try to use flights where we see more south Asians to avoid racists like you..everyone hangs around with their own people..no one is stopping you to travel with your own people..no one has asked you to travel by those flights either (the flight companies do not need you either as they have enough south asian passengers)..its a choice..choose wisely..

Lincy - May 16, 2016

Oh you mean RECENT

Rak1091 - August 11, 2016

Haha at the hygience comment. Indians have a better hygiene standard than the west. There is no death of white idiots in flights but nobody clubs them together and makes a 2000 word rant. Next time you use toilet paper to clean your backside, remember according to Indians, you are in the lower most hygiene class with bits and pieces of your excreta still clinging on to your skin. Its all about culture and the only person ignorant here is the rambling author who expects everyone to conform to western standards.

I have seen westerners blowing their noses loudly in public and then pocketing the soiled handkerchief. This would cause vomiting in many places in India and oriental countries.

Typical white trash king of the world attitude.

2. Vipin Vijayachandran - May 17, 2012

I am an Indian but, unfortunately, I have to agree with most of his comments

Boon - May 20, 2016

Vipin 4 lashes using rubber band, one light nudge with soldering gun and 2 drops of hot candle wax on both of your back cheek.
you are now an Indian – butt unfortunately swollen & red.

Indian - June 25, 2016

Boon, you are a useless, cum-stained white cuck: your wife has given up on your shriveled pedophile penis, and she is used to consorting with niggers to fulfill her depraved fantasies. Due to your lack of sexual action, you feel compelled to post pathetic comments here on social media, that lead you to labour under the delusion that you are anything but a sterile and pathetic cuckold wimp.

Boon - June 26, 2016

Indane gas – June 25, 2016

“Profanity is the effort of a feeble brain to express itself forcibly.”
― Spencer W. Kimball

3. fetzthechemist - May 18, 2012

I have flown in planes full of Germans, Dutch, Brits, Frenchmen, Arabs, and each has their own idiosynchracies. The Germans and Dutch are overbearing and loud, but do recognize personal space, so your seat area is yours and they do try not to bump into aisle passengers. Arabs are arrogant and spoiled by the wealth of their societies, at least those in most of the GCC nations. So they think they deserve special treatment before anyone else. But Indians, so far in my experiences, are the champions at this bad behaviour. (I have heard that mainland Chinese are similar, but have not had to fly on a plane full of them.)

DENSON PAUL - June 4, 2014

Please don’t hate Indians like that.Take your experience in a funny way.I am an Indian and like other Indians I also feel sad when you post such harsh comments.Consider all humans as your brothers and sisters.All your discomforts would be solved.
DENSON PAUL
denson_paul@yahoo.co.in

yoyo - June 7, 2014

you’re not who you pretend to be.. hahaha this guy is funkin paki..people get it.. he is pretending to be a white and all gentle but he is just a paki insect ..fukin suicide bomber an english speak jihadi… as far as things you have mentioned..I don’t approve of those and we Indians need to learn a lot I agree but these things coming from you a loser like you doesn’t make any sense. Don’t even get me started on your 60yrs old uncle marrying 8 yrs old and you marrying your sister for halal sex …you can molest young boys, behead fellow human being , marry your sister but can’t eat fukin ham…biggest and ugliest joke of this universe A paki pretending to be an Arab ..haha ROLF

fetzthechemist - June 7, 2014

I approve all comments that are not spam, even if they are offensive, stupid, whatever. In spite of what the rabid, and usually very young (read immature) indian nationalists – all males by the way- may think and say, I respect everyone as a human. I do not respect, but accept, comments showing hatred, ignorance, and dogma followed blindly.

India has this history and ancient culture, so what? So do Egypt, Iraq, Greece, Italy, Peru, Mexico, and China. India is predicted to be a superpower, just like their hated UK was, yet they copy the British arrogance of the Raj. India in herself is no better or worse than any other nation nor are her people, but they are a part of the world. Being out in that world does not mean trying to make the other 200 nations into India by flooding them with arrogant, self-centered people.

huskypride - June 14, 2014

Being a Chinese I have flown many domestic and international airlines full of or mostly mainland Chinese. And to be honest talking loud or any other bad behaviors aren’t common. Young Chinese people like me tend to mind their own business, mostly watching movies or gaming on iPad/laptop or just sleeping. However what you have heard might be true for middle aged or senior Chinese people, most of them weren’t well educated during their youth and must be so hyped first time travelling abroad. But I have never flown with these people either, only heard about it like you.
I have flown with Americans and Europeans (couldn’t tell which particular country) and they were quiet and polite. The Russians were really funny, some of them got so drunk during the flight and it seems a celebration after safe landing has become their tradition.
Never flown with Indians either. But most Indian people I have seen here in United States are nice and polite in public. However the body odor is noticeable but not as bad as some people claimed.

tom - June 14, 2014

huskypride, being an indian i have also flow to golan heights. we young indian too mind our own business, mostly watching sunny leone’s latest song and gaming on master-bathing undercover rug provided in cabin.

You mention that body odor is noticeable but not as bad. There could be only one reason for that. you have not yet interrupted an indian when he is playing master-bathing game undercover in a plane. a fully grown indian male stores very noxious oil in his two walnut-sized things ,which looks like old prune and very common in every male species. When alarmed or attacked an indian in plane watching sunny leone and busy playing with his joy stick, he lifts his armpit sprays the oil in air — and whoever or whatever gets in the line of fire will get punished.

i differ to agree with you, most Indian people in United States are nice and polite in public.no sir, they are nice and polite in UK also and many other locations

desertrob - October 12, 2014

Indians (with money) and arabs are impolite but pale to insignificance compared to Isrealis.

4. Karan - August 4, 2012

Well i agree with you on all this. But being an indian myself, the reason most indians are i’ll mannered is because that’s how things are in our country. I mean people behave this way and majority of the others dont mind or do the same things as them.
Personally , all the above things really annoy me too. You just have to face it when on a flight. Imagine myself living here facing this daily!
Also it varies from person to person. Even right now i am travelling in a bus with people bumping into each other and not caring and talking like really loud while i sit at my seat reading blogs.
I really wish they start teaching this more seriously in school so that the coming generations do not exhibit the same behavior.

Its not that i dont love my country. Its just that one type of people make the whole race look bad.

fetzthechemist - August 4, 2012

Yes, I dofind a few Indians on these flights who are not such boors. The Indians canbe polite at times, too. It can even be a mixed bag. Onmy last trip, I had the aisle seat of a bulkhead area, which Iknow can be a problem because the video screen is a pullout extension. When I got tomy seat, which is usually very early in boarding because I am a premium-flier withlots of milage, there was an Indian woman sitting in my seat, baby in arms (why she beat me to there!). I told her she was in my seat. She asked innocently if that was seat number XYZ, which was the window seat. Then she refused tomove saying she needed to get up and down a lot for her baby. After a couple of minutes of trying to get around her stubbornness, I sat in the window seat (Iknow, my mistake and I now know to just call a flight attendant and have them deal with her). Then this woman got the flight attendant to put in a basinette on the bulkhead wall to be a baby bed.I was then trapped for the sixteen hour flight. Getting to have an exit to even use the rest room was a huge undertaking. (This is why I will not give women with babies anyleeway anymore, either.)

Richard L - April 1, 2014

Please don’t allow this dishonest, racist and sociapathic northern Indian woman to colour your views on all Women with children.

Manish - February 5, 2017

Who are you Richard??

5. Harris - October 27, 2012

Im a cabin crew…. Indian, Arab and Mainland China passengers are the most unpleasant and not polite at from start from boarding until landing. Pain in the ass to be honest with you! Selfish! Dirty! And absolute stupid! And i am asian fyi… God i dont understand how these people live in their country! No system! No sivic! Oh my god!!!!!!! And i just came back from Khunming flight and my stewardess cries at the galley!

fetzthechemist - October 27, 2012

As I mention in a later post (I comment a few time on this topic) Indians are especially rude to the cabin crew. They must treat their servants at home very badly. When I see this on a flight and have a chancd to say something to the attendant, I do – a bit of sympathy or support. They have one hell of a job and handle it with courtesy and I could not do that for hour after hour.

Krishnan - June 5, 2014

Hey fetzthechemist, You really have something against Indians,don’t you???

And, BTW, why is that you keep referring to your miles so many times??? Do you think people judge you by the miles you have?

I do agree with one or two behaviours that are common with Indians. Trust me, with the exception of the BO issue, the other rude behaviors, i mean intentionally rude behaviours are more Prevalent to european travellers, both east and west, more than the american ones. Indians, just have a rude face, and some of the behaviours are just cultural, which i do agree should change.

But what you display here, is just pure arrogance and hatred towards one sect of people.

Going by what you keep writing, i have a feeling that Indians must have rub you off the wrong way, some place else in your life. The flying experience might just be an excuse to vent off the steam, eh??

It might be good for you to accept the fact that Emirates is going to be full of Indians, no matter how much you dislike them. Better choice for you, might be to fly one of those snobbish european carriers and be amongst people of your own taste.

Dont you think, that might be better, than putting up with, young mothers with babies crying, not to mention smelly and arrogant people?

indian - March 24, 2013

The eastern Europeans and the russians behave the same exact way…i’m an indian.

Rav - November 9, 2013

You must be feeling very proud.

Mimi - January 20, 2017

Oh certainly not! It is pathetic to compare Eastern Europeans to unruly and smelly Indians. I agree with everything what was written in this article. I know the truth is harsh to bear.

6. DambullaDreams - October 31, 2012

I flew dozens of times between India and the US east coast during a multiple year assignment in BLR, via every major airline and different gateways in EMEA. The worst recurring matter for me is that I am a petite, youthful looking South Asian woman who often travels alone–and some Indians feel they can take advantage of this. When an Indian family clambers on board late and sits in seats that are split up in various rows (likely due to bad planning, not checking in online in advance, etc.), some clown from the clan invariably finds ME, sitting alone in my aisle seat and minding my own business, and asks me to move to a middle seat in the middle section, so that “Auntie” can sit next to her kin. Bad planning on your part doesn’t constitute an emergency on my part. I just won’t move, even when they have the cajones to call a flight attendant — as if I am the squatter! You can’t make any of this up; and sadly, truth is stranger and more unpleasant than fiction.

AshRodrig - June 4, 2014

Been there and I am a tall 6ft 3″ person, I bluntly refuse and say that I paid extra to get this one. haha Not going to comprise my comfort for their convenience. especially if it is a long flight ahead.

7. the chef - November 16, 2012

well, i work in a restaurant here in Dubai. Indians are the worst guest you can ever have. demanding, thinks that the waiters and the cooks are their own servants, would make silly complaints just for them not to pay what they’ve ordered. filthy, would let their children run around the restaurant like wild rabbits and men THEY STINK! this is my honest observation and not even an opinon.

8. Anonymous - January 14, 2013

Then you should watch them behave while in India!!!

9. Crystal marie - January 29, 2013

I am a Canadian, real Canadian Citizen and I took a job with Emirates for 1 year when I was younger…and that was all I could handle…it is common knowledge amonst the entire Emirates staff, Indian crew or not- That dealing with Indians on these flights is a total and utter nightmare…Crew call in sick to not do the US fligts or just refuse to get a US visa so they do not have to do fly to Americas. The act so uncivlized and worse than a wild animal that it is shocking to imagine how they function in a society. Until you visit India and then get a better understanding as in some parts they do live worse than animals in First World countries. It is not racist, but FACTS, and truth we cannot ignore. I will NEVER fly Emirates on a long haul again business class or not, as it feels like you are locked in a cage with animals with rabies! Granted, it is not all Indians, but definately 90-95% and those who are coming to the Americas will get a fast lesson in socially acceptable behaviour, as of course these changes do take time.

PKS Nathan - November 5, 2013

“… Cage with animals and rabbies…” – This is the most racist, virulent and violent attack (if verbal) I know.

Crystal - December 9, 2013

Dear Nathan,

The comment by no means is intended to be “racist” or “hateful” but to accurately describe the scene in which I encountered time and time again on the flights with predominantly Indian pax.
Please note, I have many good friends that are Indians, as well my husband who is an Indian citizen but born in Kerala and raised in Toronto are in complete agreement with these blog comments.
Clearly, there are more underlying socio-cultural issues but the fact remains that these flights were the main reason I and other colleagues were forced to resign.
I hope this provides some clarity.

Harith - December 30, 2013

Being an Indian, i totally agree with the above Canadian; Indians better stop beating drums and come out of their damm hypocrisy; when some one tells your mistakes,stop calling them as racists; this is just a mask.i traveled number of times with fellow Indians only to find the flight as a trash can at the arrival city. they typically behave as if thy are boding a second class train compartment and never leave any opportunity to occupy other’s space.

Christmas - December 19, 2013

You’re not racist at all Crystal. Ignore Nathan. I’ve been there too, where I am just trying to describe what happened or what someone is like (and I mean TOTAL culture shock when it comes to Indians who are not westernized) and I’ve been called a racist. It is merely an observance on our part and when SO MANY of them act in this manner TIME AND TIME again, it is okay to generalize about their culture in India. It’s a FACT that they’re so different from us that it causes a very unpleasant experience for us. So it has nothing to do with the color of their skin, the language they speak, their religion, or which country they were born in.

Vrinda - January 3, 2015

It is not okay to generalize about anyone’s culture, even if you have encountered many who behave that way. I am Indian, but born and raised in the U.S. You have never met me, my relatives, or any of my Indian friends, but are you going to say that we all behave like the Indians you encountered?

What is racism? - February 24, 2014

Dear Crystal,

Let me explain why your comments ARE racist. You say the following:
• dealing with Indians on these flights is a total and utter nightmare
• The act so uncivlized and worse than a wild animal that it is shocking to imagine how they function in a society
• they do live worse than animals in First World countries

I’m sure you will agree that these are general statements about Indians. Or in other words, if you see a person with brown skin who appears to be Indian on an Emirates flight then you will assume the above said statements are true for that person. This is the definition of racism. Try a Google search. Here is a quote right out of Wikipedia: “any assumption that a person’s behavior would be influenced by their racial categorization is inherently racist, regardless of whether the action is intentionally harmful or pejorative, because stereotyping necessarily subordinates individual identity to group identity”

You also say “It is not racist, but FACTS, and truth we cannot ignore”. Think back about how racism got its bad rap. People made the observation that most of the crimes in America are being committed by young African American men. These are facts (exactly like you say) that can be proven by examining crime statistics. Whenever people saw young African American men they would, for example, lock their cars, clutch their purses tightly, etc. This is something President Obama said. Police started stopping rich young black men driving expensive cars, assuming they are stealing it. Lots of honest good people got hurt or were inconvenienced. These people made a big hue and cry over this issue (rightfully so) and brought great publicity on this and here we are today with the current state of racism. They were all based on facts and observations.

Racism is what comes naturally to humans, because it is basic pattern-matching, something that the human brain is really good at. We make observations, find a pattern, and assume that next time we see this pattern we should expect the same behavior. Why is this bad in the case of racism? Because good people get hurt, just like how president Obama got hurt. I was hurt by this, because I got terrible service on Emirates just because I appear India. I am an extremely well behaved, kind and considerate individual, more so than the average Caucasian I know. I go above and beyond to help people. I have read posts that other good Indian people got hurt as well. You say “Granted, it is not all Indians, but definately 90-95%”. What that means is, you are hurting 1 in 10 Indians. In a plane containing 300 Indians, you have possibly hurt 30 people by being indifferent to them even though they are good individuals.

Racism is what comes naturally to humans. We have to work REALLY hard to overcome our natural prejudices. Hopefully my post will help someone.

fetzthechemist - February 24, 2014

I do not censor or delete any comments, even if I donot agree with them. That some Indians behave badly on planes is my observation. I do not then let that define my reactions and actions to any other Indians. The “good” do not earn that from the behaviours of the “bad”. But those who do behave badly to me, the cabin crew, or to their fellow passengers do not deserve that. In behaving badly, they lose the right to respect, courtesy, or politeness if they are in a situation where it is my choice to give it to them. I do not go out of my way to mistreat anyone, but if someone has been discourteous or disregarded me as a fellow passenger, then why should I help them get their heavy bag out of the storage bin? (I am tall and so it is easier for me and I do that to most passengers.)

Crystal - February 25, 2014

Dear “What Is Racism’,

While I do appreciate your analysis of my previous blog entry well over a year ago, sadly I stand by many of my points.

While I do consider myself a Global Citizen for the most part, I am afraid my observations are true. Of course, I know I am not a racist, as I married to an Indian man from Kerala, raised in Canada and have 2 children with him.
The issue I have is solely on the atrocious behaviour I had witnessed as an Emirates stewardess during that period of my life.

Of course, many friends of mine who remain crew, will confirm my exact sentiments. I will not apologize or allow you to put me into a corner with your verbal attack by calling me a racist, because what I have said is the truth. It is the reality in most cases when you fly Emirates.

And by means there are exceptions. These are far and few between. I do apologize to yourself however, as I know there are amazing people and bad people of all origin, however I do stand by my comments.

I hope you can also know that this exact discussion is one I hold with my Indian friends and husband, and they whom are also very kind, considerate individuals could not agree more.

I appreciate you most likely have not seen to the extent I have the behaviours I mentioned above. However, I believe it is you my friend, not me that needs to clarify their terms and not go calling people racist when really it is reality of the airline industry, specifically Emirates. Look at the original blog post my friend.

What is racism? - February 25, 2014

Crystal, Glad you replied. I did not call you a racist. Please read carefully. I said your comments are racist. The two are different. We have all (or at least most of us) been racist at one point or another, at least in out thoughts. That doesn’t make you a racist, unless you consistently demonstrate that behavior. I am quite confident that neither you nor fetzthechemist are racist. In fact, based on his posts, fetzthechemist appears to be a really good gentleman. My comments were indented to shine light on the down side of profiling people based on their appearance. Clearly some of the Emirates staff is being racist in their action and it has hurt me personally. My point is, we all tend to jump in to conclusions based on a person’s appearance and next time we should think carefully before jumping into conclusions.

fetzthechemist - February 25, 2014

I would also agree that the response from the crew can sometimes be racist or stereotyped. This is particularly true of those crew from eastern Europe. I have seen several very rude responses, or rolling of the eyes to another crew member, when the request from an Indian passenger was normal, such as wanting extra ice in a drink cup. The crew is trying hard to cater to over a hundred people in their section and this is for over 15 hours, so I understand being tired and shorter of patience. But when I get treated differently that my Indian seatmate, it is obviously something other than that. On both sides, crew and passengers, we must be aware of the others and try to make the experience as painless as possible. Long flights are not enjoyable unless you are in business class.

Aan - February 25, 2014

Exactly. M so ashamed to be one of them. I am a flight attendant n I completely understand… even though we try our best to make them happy but they always want more n extra as if they only paid fr their meals n not for their luggage …. huh… :-/ they js dnt understand ….. !!!!! Sad!

jay - March 17, 2014

Who is a ‘real’ Canadian citizen? How is that different from an ordinary Canadian like your Kerala born husband? I notice in your next blog you refer yourself as global citizen. What is going on Crystal?
Generalizing a class, society or culture’ as animals with rabies’, in my opinion is a comment that reinforces racism irrespective of whether you consider yourself to be a racist or not. Your credentials such as ‘I have Indian friends and husband’ isn’t a good explanation to protect your insensitive remarks.
I have no doubt that you experienced difficulties with the Indians in flights. Ever considered that if you were compassionate and tolerant of the under privileged, you may have experienced your life differently?
When you say ‘FACTS, and truth we cannot ignore’, you are only referring to your perception. Perhaps, what is missing is in your blind spot.
I wish you have the courage to read these comments without having to feel defensive.

crystal - March 17, 2014

Jay,

Thank you for your slighted comment but perhaps it is you who should read the above comments.

The blog is very simply about Indians behaving badly on flights.

I am done being sensitive to this issue! Just because you come from a less than privileged upbringing does NOT EVER give you the right to act like a rabid animal!!

I am sorry that it is my “perception’ but these are facts shared not just amongst myself but also anyone in the airlines industry, specifically Emirates.

So Jay, please know I am NOT generalizing, nor sympathizing, just stating why I even came to this blog in the first place-

Simply the irrational and horrific behaviours and attitudes I noticed more than several Indian passengers I served!!!

And stop with your RACIST CARD, pathetic! As if other nationalities do not make their own generalizations about others!

I said I am from Canada, correct? Therefore, I have friends from all over the world, a GLOBAL NETWORK!

Being Canadian to me represents, courtesy, kindness and a do unto others attitude.

Maybe my remarks are insensitive, but I am not apologizing for the experience I witnessed first hand time and time and time AGAIN as both a crew and a passenger!

Thank you!

Erich - April 11, 2014

Dear Crystal,
Oho my God, I never heard this kind of venomous language targeting one race like this. You have taken racism to new higher level. And you have statistics too, 90-95% who are coming to Americas. First world countries invaded other countries just 100 years back for what?..one cannot forget the past…Aboriginal people in Americas,Australia are still alive ? On this blue planet there is no country like India which tolerant and generous to all religions,castes and sects.You don’t worry about our society we survived and thrived over the centuries.I recommend you read Black skin and white mask.If you have some problem just you could tell them who are unruly on the flights..Just because you have issues in your work you cannot blame to total society for that. May god give you strength and get well soon child.

Crystal - April 13, 2014

Dear Erich,

Please calm down. Clearly you feel offended to some extent.
This discussion pertains only to behaviour’s of some groups of Indian peoples. Not all by any means.

Please stop with your pathetic use of the word ‘rascist” which I am not.

I am speaking freely, something I am allowed to do in my country Canada.

I am sure you are also entitled to your own opinion and use it, so you stop being discriminatory and I hope you re read my message to get a more clear sense of the truth in which I speak.

If you read properly, that was a position I did years ago, as one year was all I could take dealing with that nonsense.
Have a wonderful day.

Erich - April 14, 2014

@ Crystal: I am not angry with you, I pity you. After calling us (90-95%) wild animals in your first post there is no coming back and no need to read your bullshit. Yes,You have every right to speak freely anywhere, not only in Canada. Just because you faced issues with some stupid people who are from India, you blamed all of us,and my culture. If one guy is stupid you just add stereotype to that ethnicity.. Is this allowed in Canada? After reading this post can I say that ” All Canadians (95%) don’t like South Asians, and they are racist” ? If we are so stupid and unbearable why the hell Americas giving visas and allowing us in your countries? Stop this “Curry Bashing” Please get a life Brother, see you in another Life.

fetzthechemist - April 14, 2014

The travelers from India span a wide range of backgrounds, obvious from their manners, levels of understanding, and ability to cope with these situations. I think some of the Indian posters have it correct. Some are family of those working in the US, but not as educated or aware of cultural differences. Maybe the members of family could tutor their kin about what is expected on flights and while visiting the US. The Indians I have know and worked with are quite different (this reminds me of reading Vikram Seth, who touches on this in some of his writings, how Indians vary vastly when exposed to Western situations).

AS far as Emirates wanting them to fly or US companies wanting Indians to employ, that is bare capitalism at work. Indian money is as good as any other and the accountants at Emirates do not need to deal with the problems. American companies need adequate, yet cheap, labour. I work at a biopharma company as a contractor for a year, and these guest workers are paid about 2/3 the rate of US employees, have to put up with more BS from bosses, and cannot complain or they are out of the door and of the country. It is a shitty system, Indian want a toe into America, and the pay is better than India. The companies just use them. They do not look for or expect stellar scientists or engineers. Much of the work of not challenging, yet must be done.

Lamar odell - April 24, 2014

There is nothing racist in describing a race of people as uncivilized and worse than a wild animal or an animal with rabies, as long as you point out that it’s only 90 to 95 % of those people that you’re talking about. I can tell that you’re a kind hearted woman of the world and if you say that an entire race of people are like wild animals with rabies, it must be the truth. Smelly rude devils they be, nothing racist in that. I noticed that a lot of Canadian people drink a lot of beer and throw up, and even when they’re not drunk, they sound like they’re mentally retarded. Of course not all of them. Just most of them. I love Canadians and all, but they do sound retarded when they open their mouths, not being racist or anything.

crystal - April 24, 2014

How pathetic are you.
Canada is a blend of amazing culture and people.

However, they do not act rude and uncivilized.

Clearly, the class of people you speak about just reconfirms why you said that petty statement in the first place.

shekar - June 4, 2015

What is a real Canadian?

Suazo5 - June 4, 2015

TED CRUZ

10. aurinia81 - February 5, 2013

I am a flight attendant myself and while I love my job and do my best to keep an open mind, I have to second everything in the article. I have experienced all those situations myself. Of course not every Indian passenger behaves like that. Some of them even came into the galleys and apologized to us for their fellow countrymen’s horrible behaviour. Still, flights with many Indians on board are nerve-wracking and you need a thick skin as flight attendant to keep smiling and do your job.

Brad - March 11, 2013

Whenever I fly I think about how hard of a job it is to be a FA. Always having to smile, having to work for so many hours, having to always be away from home and to be shuttled back and forth from not-so-great overnight accommodations in foreign countries. Almost every flight I have been on has been a chaotic mess of rudeness and issues and the flight attendants just deal with the non-stop requests, demands and complaints with smiles and graciousness.

discardedbylife - October 9, 2014

Exactly. I doubt any Indian thinks about all this.

It’s all about themselves and what they can get. Give them an inch they’ll take a mile.

Sandy - August 22, 2015

As far as public behaviours go, I will only add that I have experienced this behaviour mostly of male children (sons) on BC ferries and schools on Vancouver, and I see this as a reflection of the culture. Indian mothers have this tendency to spoil their sons, by not providing qualitative parenting. They bring up the girls to be mild tempered and courteous, while letting their sons raise themselves. Some grow into polite and marvellous men, while others continue with impolite, rude narcissist behaviours, as read in some of the comments in this blog. I have noticed this about Koreans as well.

11. John - February 7, 2013

I took this route in business class very recently. I google this blog because the arrogancy and ungratefulness I experienced from these people, including GCC has left such a mark. Not all of those on board, but just SO MANY! So, it’s respectful to just throw your wet towel to the floor when you are finished with it? Shove and push your way around? What about a please or thanks now and again to FAs? I’m quite well-heeled these days but a smile to people serving you and some polite expressions, doesn’t take much and can make a big difference to your own self-mood, even if you’re mega weary. Anyway, I’ve added my thoughts to this, it’s made me think more about showing more respect to others, and I thank the FA’s here for a job well done.

Aanchal - February 25, 2014

Well said Mr. John

12. GlobalCitiZen - February 8, 2013

Although I’m a proud Indian, I’m an apologetic one – for the deeds of some of my countrymen of lesser caliber. I have been fortunate enough to have grown up in 3 continents all the way up to adulhood. I do agree with most of what has been stated and I wish there was a quick fix to this.

But to be fair, it is very apparent that some in this thread have resorted to personal attacks and uncalled for generalizations on the character of the entire Indian populace (1. stupid, 2. how we treat our servants, 3. indians are like animals with rabies). The first generalization is an understandable manifestation for frustration, on the bloggers part, that may be attributed to the poor grasp of the english language and a challenged vocabulary. I’m hoping enducation can help there. The second comment – you are a victim of baseless conjectures which sadly does not have any relevance to your discomfort during airtravel – you are better served sticking to the topic if you’re trying to prove a point. Regarding the third topic – I though we had gotten rid of such rhetoric when the world defeated the Third Reich but I guess some got away. Hardly a matter of worry – the smarter planet we live in today will relegate these xenophobic tendencies/individuals to irrelevance and inconsequence.

It is sad but it seem like only a deus ex machina can get some of my countrymen who’ve inconvenienced many like ourselves, to get a mandatory crash course in travel etiquette. I will pray…

fetzthechemist - February 8, 2013

I do not censor comments to any thread. I only delete ones that are obviously spam. Yes, some people ascribe these issues to ethnicity rather than education and culture differences. But somethings within Indian culture must drive these behaviours and the educational system does not overcome that. The lack of awareness of others might be strictly cultural. I see that in certain countries I travel to. But sometimes it is not obliviousness alone. Sometims it is a personal arrogance where people are aware of what they are doing and just do not care. I donot know the causes of the poor treatment of the cabin crew, but I have seen that this is more coon among seatmates who appear to be more well to do, and when I have had the chance to talk with people during flights and they behave this poor way towards the crew, they are often well educated and professionals. This leads me to believe there is an inherent insensitivity or haughtiness within upper-class Indians. This may be incorrect, but it is an observation of many more than just a single occurence.

Those Indians who have lived in the US, Canada, or Europe for some time are aware of this and even have comments to be in either an apologetic tone or more often in some negative and even derisive tone. So these are learned behaviours. It is not a selflessness that has to be learned, but an awareness that others are there and their experiences of the situation can be affected by others. I think these behaviours reflect attitudes that if one does something, it is only that person’s action to live his or her life and is of no consequence in any way to those around. It is an isolationist’s world, where everyman is an island unto himself.

It is also odd to me that people who I have met or flown with who are from other nearby nations, Sri Lanka, Nepal, Bangladesh, and even Pakistan, are different. The first two nationalities are quite aware of others and very gracious people to be around. That contrast is hard to pin on ethnicity and racial factors. It points more to culturalones.

random Indian - August 13, 2013

India is a cultural rainforest. Life, especially relations between people, exist and thrive in ways entirely different from any other place on the planet. We have 15 official languages, and a special name for each family relative, with associated etiquette for each. Now consider an average Indian who is adept at all this: His life is much denser, much less free. He has a much thicker skin because he is used to crowds and getting his way in them. His personal space is inside his head, and his happiness is with his family. The random stranger in his way (you for example)- unless the stranger talks to him, does not exist on the average Indian’s radar. Just like the Brazilian rainforest, however, technology is slowly killing off this form of life. People are trying to become more cosmopolitan, less insular and more overtly polite. But they are also seceding from family, and are becoming more prone to mid-life crises and bouts of rage and depression. Anyhow, my suggestion to you is please don’t ever come to India, you probably won’t have a good time…

fetzthechemist - August 13, 2013

Sadly, I probably will not travel to India unless I must on business. As an option, it does not have any allure. Buildings and other architectural structures do not interest me much, whether it be the Taj Mahal or the Eiffel Tower or Gaudi’s cathedral in Barcelona. I like watching people and learning, so that might be very interesting and eye-opening (and yes, the many posts here have made me more mentally tolerant that most of these behaviours are out of ignorance that the world outside of India is different.) But being continually jostled is not one of my joys. I meet many Indians in my work and life (there is a large Sikh community in my suburb because there is a temple only about 6 or 7 kilometers away – a small distance in California terms.) It also fascinates me that attitudes of other south Asians differ. Infact, some friends from Sri Lanka and Nepal would vehemently disagree that you cannot tell the difference between them and Indians or Pakistanis.

wowjustwow - April 11, 2014

” somethings within Indian culture must drive these behaviours and the educational system does not overcome that”

Yes, something within the Indian culture must also be driving us to be the most educated and successful ethnic group in the country (Satya Nadella, Indra Nooyi). By your logic, all of us should be CEOs because we are predispositioned to be that way..i actually like that!

Expand your horizons and be more broadminded…there are jerks and obnoxious people in every culture and country. Generalizing it just shows that you refuse to look beyond stereotypes. Grow up.

fetzthechemist - April 11, 2014

I admire the Indian emphasis on education. I do not admire those who have an attitude of “If I am not caught, it is not really illegal”. Indians are a complex people. That some, and a noticeably large portion that that in other cultures or nationalities are jerks and obnoxious. Maybe it is an obliviosness or arrogance that the whole world is or ought to be just like India.

PK - April 17, 2014

“Yes, something within the Indian culture must also be driving us to be the most educated and successful ethnic group in the country”

Point taken. But consider what started this long, ongoing thread: Indians also have a reputation of being amazingly rude. Google “cheap India tippers”. There’s even a term to describe those who have acquired wealth but are regarded to be of lower class: “nouveau riche”.

To the Indians, class (or “caste”) is EVERYTHING. Those within the lower castes are treated with less respect. So naturally when they read an online forum that describes Indians, including those from upper castes in their society traveling to and from the states, as lower in class than even working class Americans and Europeans, it not only offends them but hits them at the core of their self-esteem.

The USA and Europe are not classless societies by any means. There are VIP lounges at airports for those who are well educated and affluent and for the masses, it’s economy class with uncomfortable chairs by the gate and paying $7 for a small, warm beer. But even so, most Americans and Europeans ACT classy, in a different meaning of the word, in their professional and personal lives. I had a director treat me in an openly degrading fashion a few years ago. I complained to HR and he was reprimanded. Other co-workers condemned the bad behavior of the authority figure. This is what makes America and Europe different than India and I daresay, also a better place to live. The cutthroat and corrupt culture of India has made the average life of an Indian unpleasant which is why they seek to emigrate. We have similar places in America for example: New York has that reputation (although when I visit NYC, I’m always surprised at how pleasant they are with me. But perhaps that’s because I’m a well trained tourist.) NYC has a reputation for being cutthroat, dirty, and crime ridden. It was cleaned up recently but the taint persists. In the states, a successful New Yorker is often viewed with distrust as dishonest, poorly mannered, and tasteless even and perhaps especially if they have a lot of education and money.

aps - June 4, 2014

well mister ,
you have yet to travel to india to understand India , just by travelling with indians does not qualify u to pass sweeping comments.Agree that ur dollar is strong as of now .. lets wait for another 30 years and see whole lot of americans making beeline to india.

13. JV - March 5, 2013

I hate to admit, “we are like that!” While lot of us are adapting to western culture and etiquette, a good number in India are still not exposed to the world.

The women with a baby taking your seat or people congregating near your seat to talk are behaviors that are considered annoying even in India! we don’t like them either. These behaviors come mainly from our urban centers where life is “survival of the fittest!” In such cases we generally get into an argument before one party gives up.

The case of people who are overbearing or rude with others due to excess money or power is a very common behavior across Asia! Most of them know they can get away with anything back home, so why would they be nice to anyone?They are just bad people.

It has hardly been a decade since many Indians could afford flying and visit foreign lands, I am sure the next generation will respect other cultures better

Sandy - August 22, 2015

I like some of your points brought up that bring clearer understanding to the culture, which really is the key to this blog, instead of denying or fighting it off with immature and weak accusations. What you mentioned about behaviour of “survival” in mannerism is like anywhere else, really. But perhaps that is be problem of older cultures, especially when they create divisions of status, and stereotypically place lower castes as uneducated with poor manners…

14. Apurva - March 21, 2013

I am an Indian, live in India, but travel a lot world-over. I have to agree with the general tone of this thread. As an Indian even I find all of these thing irritating, not only on the international flights, but also at home while driving, going to a restaurant, dealing with a public servant at an office etc.

In India, values are different. It is considered below dignity to wait patiently in a queue. Getting served out of turn-by hook or crook-is considered smart and manly. Jumping a red signal here is no big deal. A person waiting at the red light looks foolish as most others would pass him/her by. If the traffic police detains him, he will pull out his mobile phone and call some officer higher in the command chain.

An Indian might be very affluent and could be living in a posh expensive apartment. But he/she will just throw rubbish out of the window rather than putting it in a garbage bin.

Some people say this is cultural. Some say India being densely populated with limited resources, the instinct for survival is driving this behaviour.

Lets hope the “economic revolution” will improve things with the next generation!

someone - February 21, 2014

“It is considered below dignity to wait patiently in a queue. Getting served out of turn-by hook or crook-is considered smart and manly.” – I find this to be total BS. I was born and brought up in India (23 years) and I have lived in the west for about 20 years. It is true that in India people try to jump the queue and nepotism is widespread, but to say it is considered manly to do so and it is below ones dignity to wait in line is TOTAL rubbish. Nowhere in the world have I seen that. Maybe I need to travel a bit more, but in my opinion this is not true at all. Even while in India before I came to the west, I (and most people around me) would wait patiently in a queue (think about buying railway tickets – this is where I have seen the longest queues).

I do agree that many Indians behave quite badly on air planes. One reason could be that most of these folks are parents of Indians living in North America, and these parents do not understand English quite well so they do not follow instructions. The pushing and shoving and personal space violations are because of how people live their lives in India where people are everywhere – like ants. I’m sure they will appear uncouth to a person from the West.

If you are complaining about the flight from North America to Dubai, then you have seen nothing yet. The worst behaviours I have seen are on the flight from Dubai (or elsewhere) to India. They start serving alcohol immediately on take off and the very worst behaviour of the already bad-mannered people come out. I have actually seen a flight attendant crying…. back in 1998 on a flight from Singapore to Chennai. Last December I saw a guy lying down in the galley, passed out. Apparently the crew asked him to lie down because he had too much to drink and could not stand up. I think they should stop serving alcohol on all flights.

discardedbylife - October 9, 2014

Rich. privileged Indian like “someone” has no clue about the real Indians like “Apurva” doea.

TheWanderer - November 3, 2014

I too have travelled on that route extensively and you do have a point to make but in my opinion using the example of people travelling on Dubai – India route or for that matter from any other middle east muslim country to India and vice versa does not give an honest portrayal of travelling habits of Indians in general. Why, because the bulk of immigrants travelling to and fro from these destination are Indians who will end up doing 4th class manual jobs there ( no disrespect to any one as all works are important). And the people who have been hired to do these jobs will naturally either come from a lower strata of Indian society with very poor education and social skills or would be marginally better and have been pulled by one of their numerous relatives who have settled abroad a long time back. What kind of travelling etiquettes do you expect from such people ? They hardly know how to travel decently in a local bus forget about int flights. Most of the time it is these type of Indians who create mischief while they are travelling either bcos they get too drunk intentionally ( free booze 🙂 ) or they dont have a clue how to behave rationally when on a flight. Most of the educated Indian class knows how to conduct themselves with dignity. There is however a growing awareness about travelling etiquettes among Indians and things will definitely improve in future.

15. Mahendra Penumathsa - April 4, 2013

Very interesting thread indeed. I guess truth and mis understanding lie in Fetz’s closing lines – Clueless and Egocentric – Yes they are.. Rude? That’s a mis understanding.

Apurva has stated it correctly. India is a very densely populated country. Resources – Whether the space on the road, the length of a queue, competition for a job or for a seat in a school – they all have to be jostled for. Folks develop a sense of survival that very quickly manifests itself in – let me get ahead or I loose out for ever mentality. This in turn impacts and results in low community behavior. Here is a very fine distinction of something impacted for want of space, not always out of scarcity in resources.

Clueless, yes. Egocentric, Ofcourse.

All these traits are in full show and strength when Indians began traveling all over – whether for education, opportunities or even leisure. For all the inconvenience and raised brows this causes to fellow earthlings, the same reasons make them work very hard for opportunities. And most of the times, they are successful. This very set of attributes drive them into different spaces too. Some of them have the capability to mould themselves to the culture they find themselves in, and some of them cannot cross that boundary in a short lived contact, let alone a pressurized cabin 35000 ft above the ground.

The rudeness that is supposedly Indian, I think, is a mis understanding. Barring the rudeness you generally see in all human beings (oh.. let me not say how much I experienced in New York), what you see in Indians is a careless attitude that comes from self preservation. The, I need to preserve what is available now.

For other cultures who could nurture community living far more effectively in a different set of conditions, this topic is a hard thing to analyze or interpret, let alone guess. The irritability and impatience then, is quiet natural and understandable.

This is the reason when a lot of them travel to India and have a chance to spend some time, overcoming their initial shock, they get to see a very different side of things – an India that is clueless, yet inquisitive – An average school going Indian child is probably far more aware of the world and its affairs than most; Egocentric at the outset, yet extremely friendly once you reach out; Chaotic almost everywhere, but getting the job done in a way only they can;

A whole new generation of India is traveling. Taking in this feedback, experiencing space and community living and thinking. You could find engaging these folks extremely interesting.

Till then, the next time you want to manage being with this unruly bunch, try this out: Just Smile and Wave boys…….. Who knows, you could be fed to their entire meal, given their seat, or even invited for an Indian wedding.

As for the smell, now that’s a tough one to analyze… Just hand them your deo. After all, deo’s are meant to do their job and it doesn’t matter who wears it, would it?

For the cabin attendants who vented out their frustration of not wanting to work on some routes, I have seen some extra ordinary crews who inspite of all similar experiences show exemplary commitment to work in a global world. Not out of analysis, but with a simple smile and a can do attitude. I am sure they knew how to do their job.

And yes, I am an Indian. Cheers mates, please don’t be angry. I just hope you got to know us a little better.

someone - February 21, 2014

It is true that people in India tend to have a survivalist mentality because resource (including space) are limited, and there are so many contenders for that resource. And when you have taught yourself to fight to get what you need, it leads to other behavioural problems which manifest as rudeness on the air plane, among other things. e.g. while driving you have to fight your way around. No one gives you space. Rarely (but it has happened few times) do you see another car waving you in.

But let me tell you this, people in the west will behave quite badly too when resources become scarce. I have seen this happen. Think about holiday travel especially towards Christmas / New Years time. Haven’t you seen some of the worst behaving people at that time? Now multiply this by 1000 and you get India, where the resource crunch is never ending and the population is several times that of North America. I have seen some of the most rude people in New York, people who are unwilling to help others. So think a little before being racist. Yeah, you can call it observation (I’m talking to you, Crystal Marie) but that is the definition of racism. Why don’t you check it out yourself. Now, I’m not saying what is said is not true, but it is still racism.

fetzthechemist - February 21, 2014

Yes, people in New York City are rude and more uncaring. That is why a vast majority of people from other places in the US detest them, too. Losing your humanity because it is crowded and competitive is a sad commentary on people – New York City dwellers, Parisians, Indians, those from mainland China. The list goes on. What differentiates humans from animals and primitive savages is that they can be altruistic, empathetic, and see beyond themselves.

PolishKnight - April 6, 2014

My wife and I went to NYC for Christmas a year ago. We had a wonderful time especially in Brighton Beach. NOBODY responded to “Merry Christmas”, but they were very friendly and helpful with directions on the subway.

That was New Yorkers in general, of course. For the financial district and some of the colleagues I had to deal with who were from there, they were ruthless, rude, and sociopathic but I suppose that was their survival mechanism in a region of town where a small box of Frosted Flakes cereal at CVS cost $10.00. (However, across from Penn Station was a nice Chinese Restaurant with prices comparable to a suburb of DC where I live.)

Another surprise for me was a trip of Philadelphia a month ago. To my surprise, the locals were friendly. I thought someone had body switched them. Perhaps they were cheerful because the weather was getting warmer.

fetzthechemist - April 6, 2014

New Yorkers are in a huge bustling city and most Americans think of them as impersonal or rude. This is akin to Parisians, who are aloof, arrogant, and rude to everyone.

On my latest flight to Dubai I met an Indian named Kumar who works in Muscat. Not only was he polite, he was thoughtful and personable. Many Indians are, so the contrast to those who are not is great. The ratio of nice to not nice nust seems different for Indians, more towards the latter and some very egregious behaviours.

Janardhan - June 3, 2014

India as a densely populated country with limited resources? What about Japan? South Korea? The Netherlands? Germany? England? All of the above are densely populated but you so not see such behavior there. Indeed the Japanese are one of the most polite of people, the opposite of us.

Gordon Illan - August 22, 2014

Well said.

16. fetzthechemist - April 4, 2013

This has become a quite interesting thread.Thanks to all the commenters. To Mahendra, your well-written and thought out comment highlights that many Indians are good thinkers. I am commenting on social behaviours, but understand the competitiveness interwoven in the crowded society of Indian. The inquisitiveness is a good mental trait and intellectual curiosity and drive are, too. But in Western society, we learn at some point, generally, to taper these into work and academics and other pursuits – but that in society others do matter.

Having been very successful intellectually (my CV is obscenely long and full of accomplishments that put me somewh in the highly accomplished tier of my profession).I still understand that people skills are important in work. Leadership and teamwork are two examples. Collaboration works best in many situations and helps everyone dobetter. It is not just working well together on a project. Colleagial behaviour is helping others with ideas, guidane, or whatever you have that moves the others’ work along, without regard to a tangible, immediate reward.

I have met many bright Indians in my travels and career. I have worked with several. Is this a broad-stroke indictment? No, it is not stereotyping. Many Indians learn these ways of modifying behaviours. If Indian society learns to teach its people, particularly the young, to behave better in certain situations, then a stigma disappears. But anyone who has exerienced these types of bad behaviour will has certain qualms, a mild queasiness, of interacting with a group of Indians in a social situation. If this detrimental toIndians? Yes, because all groups in any profession or business area are only congragations of people who feel real human emotions. I do hope Indian society (and east Asian or Russian ones that others mentioned) learn to be a more involved part of the human blend that must be the future global society.

17. Ved - April 5, 2013

Indians come in all shapes and sizes. Then we have the factors of money, level of education, genetics (yes) and the sub-community (region in India) they come from which contribute to creating a personality. Going “outside India” is considered prestigious (quite naturally, since development and quality of life here is less).

Naturally, the order of Indians who go outside India (and whom you encounter) goes generally like this —

1. Rich Indians who are not necessarily educated. Businessmen and their families belong to this category. They’re more often than not — noisy. I would also count Indians brought up outside India in this category. Some of them come as adequately polite while others just remain the original noisy lot. This is because when abroad too, they live in groups and do not really integrate.

2. Rich Indians seeking education — Indian students enrolling in uber-costly Universities belong to this category. They’re trying to adapt to being western while their families back in India are working on paying back costly student loans.

3. Middleclass Indians who’re educated — Generally workers in technology and other such fields, out for a work assignment. They’re trying to experience the best in the short span of time they get to be abroad. Sometimes noisy but sometimes overly polite.

Having said that, there are a lot of well educated, polite Indians in India itself (i strive to be one of them). It’s tough but the only principled way to progress. You will never see such people. They do not flock aeroplanes, they’re in India, working hard to earn a living and are majorly invisible. Education (to a certain extent) and the degree of hardships a person has gone through eventually make his/her personality.

18. fetzthechemist - April 5, 2013

As with any immense group of people from a large nation, I do not expect homogeneity of Indians. Those fromthe US vary vastly, too. Some can be quite rude and boorish – the stereotypical New York City dweller or Texan come tomind. But even with that in mind, some of the behaviours I have seen of Indians on airplane flights are hard to take. When finishing your meal, you do not place it in the ailseway! You do not sit in an assigned seat that is not your own!

I might accept these better if they had been one-time abberations, but repeats of some of these behaviours show me that they are culturally and societally based. I have heard words about those from China being similar or worse, but have been fortunate so far to have had experienced them.

Indians can be very nice and friendly people. I have encountered that both in the US and in my travels to Qatar, the UAE, Oman, et cetera. But in airports and on airplanes, the behaviours that antagonize me are common and varied.

19. Ved - April 6, 2013

As you rightly say, these aren’t one-time abberations. These trace to society. The biggest factor which stops us from improving is “acceptance of fault”. As one of the above commentators implied, that arises from a packed society, full of competition. People lose ethics; the one that wins is the one that prevails; acceptance of fault unfortunately finds no place.
fetzthechemist, you have spawned an interesting thread which differs from other such threads. Yours has got comments from thinking minds, not from plain old culture-bashers as is the case with many other similar threads.
One who reads your post from start to finish, with all comments, is most likely to come to a stage of accepting his fault rather than stay in a denial mode. This is because you have been very specific in pointing to mistakes which do exist.
Core improvements in a people-group will certainly happen but it will be a long process where people ultimately see value in quality rather than quantity. Unfortunately, this is out of governance of a single person. Individuals can start improving by themselves but in a society driven by competition (and not cooperation), such individuals will not be able to sustain perfect ethical behaviour.

fetzthechemist - April 6, 2013

Nobody is born in a set personality. A person learns and changes, and this is throughout life. It requires awareness and understanding to make the changes to become worth making. I think most people would prefer to be liked rather than disliked or looked down upon. I also thinkmany people, even those from a crowded and competitive society, would look at a situation differently when they are the recipient rather than the giver of bad behaviours. I see some Indians who do not do these things, shake their heads in disbelief or dismay, and comment – even apologizing to a cabin-crew member at the rudeness of a fellow Indian passenger. So there is hoe.

Competitiveness in life is no excuse, either. You win both through creating opportunities and through merit, and opportunities are created inmany ways. Immediate success due to bad behaviour has the unintended side-effects of making one’s self known in a certain way. The consequences may happen later and even be unknown to the person, but they happen. I once, as a hiring manager, got an application for a job from someone I had known in graduate school, who had no way of knowing that I was the future boss since it was from an advertisement from my company. This person had been a real jerk to me and most other people when we were in school. Did I want that on my team? No! That application went immediately intothe Rejected pile without my looking at any other criteria. I did not care if this person was the best chemist for that job.

Ved - April 7, 2013

Hence, the solution is to ignore and leave them to their fate. Get the help of the flight attendant whenever you see someone else occupying your seat and evict them, ignore the rest of them as much as possible. Those of them that are annoying will sooner or later hit failures in their lives (which you may not know of).

At the same time, refrain from stereotyping. I have had the experience of appearing for a face to face job interview taken by a white man. As soon as i (the interviewee) entered the room, the interviewer took a defensive stance. He would interpret everything i said with a pinch of salt. I was rejected and he did not even care to inform me of the rejection. Now i’m no pushover in my field and whereas i may not be the best fit for the job, i’m sure i was certainly looked down upon, opinions were formed even before i spoke. Do i behave annoyingly? As much as i know of, i don’t! Why did i navigate to this blog? I wanted to understand what behaviour is seen as unacceptable.

Merit — this holds little place in society here. Do you know that there are official fifty per cent reservations in jobs for so called lower classes in India for the past 60 years or so? Then there is the elite boisterous business class with shallow minds too.

My (perhaps unsolicited) few words — Whereas you’re absolutely correct in pointing to specific mistakes (which many of us admittedly do), one should not stereotype as that takes a toll on some of the better ones out here.

Thoughtful blog, all the best and i hope you also encounter the better ones among us.

fetzthechemist - April 7, 2013

Stereotyping is bad behaviour, too. It may be that generally – more than half the people – share some characteristic, but this also means that a large number will not. Even if the proportion is high, 95% to 5%, that wuld be both unfair to the 5% and a missed opportunity to meet a good person for the misguided person using that stereotype. If we were to meet inperson, you would find I fit few molds of normality in a lot of characteristics. So I have felt the unfairness and stupidity of being a stereotype. I would hope everyother person can project their own experiences in that way to try to see each person individually based on eachone’s own good and bad traits.

That is a portion of what needs to be done to mollify or mitigate these bad behaviours. We must be able to project beyond ourselves and see how our actions impact others, not just ourselves. If I do something that benefits me at the detriment of others, that is selfishness. It is not acceptable in a society because it takes away that core benefit of overall gain above individual gain. I may be more comfortable and happy doing something, but if it makes you evenmore uncomfortable and unhappy, then it ought not to be done. My gain shuld not be smaller than your loss, especially when there are alternatives where your loss is lessened much more than my gain is.

Darin Kishore - September 7, 2013

ok i am reading this thread (I’m the kid, remember me?
I have 1080 words per minute average reading speed but this thread is longgggggg. Thank u all for commenting and letting me enjoy this wonderful reading material. I have 150 AR points and i started school last week
TY 😀

20. bluto - May 19, 2013

Thanks much for a VERY interesting thread…I found it via Google after my third highly unpleasant flight with Indians and wondering if others had similar experiences…

21. sakti - May 23, 2013

Thank you for your honest comments, firslty am a proud Indian. I never deny the facts happening around. myself face the same while travelling from Dubai to India. i travelled all around europe and asia, yes the behaviour matters finally either you educated or no.Imagine i travelled in one of the north african airlines from Libya to London, i never knew that it was a connecting flight for many west, east and north africans, i had the same experience then i felt that india is far better. Its easy to point out someone else for their behavoiurs, mistakes happening but there is no solution on it

Unfortunately you have no choice, most of the connecting flights from Europe and US you find lot of Indians and asians. you need to travel on a direct flight if you like to avoid such circumstances which is national airlines of US, this would conitnue always when you travel on middleast based airlines. .

People whoever posted comments, if you are willing to do some social activities to improve on all these issues, you are welcome to join me.

It would take another least a decade to change, yes in India we are changing, we are trying to provide the best education as much as possible and myself willing to invlove in helping, educate, coach, train on personality behaviours, communication, self sustain, adaptability etc.

22. Nikhita Kumar - June 16, 2013

Wow…this is so true! lol…I’m actually Indian-American cause my mom is from the US and my dad is from Southern India.I live in India but during the hols me and my family visit the US,and yes in India,at least where I live,this is how people behave everywhere! :p lmao..But anyway on the flights from US to UA to India usually it’s from New York to Dubai and then to Trivandrum (where I live),there are hoards of Indians and Arabians! :p And compared to all the other connected flights the plane is mess! The toilets are flooded with pee,wet toilet paper,etc..etc…:p And some people don’t even lock the door…And yes the kids are running all over the place and as usual at the end of the flight they take of their seat belts and get out of the seats even when the plane is still on the runway…And also even when they bump people or stamp on their feet,etc,etc (Happens to me always) they act oblivious to it all…ahhh…overrall they don’t have manners in that sense…And the worst is the flight from UA to India,Me and my mom were they only white people in the whole flight and they pretty much stare at you even from their seats they watch you…lol…And as usual the air hostesses and hosts go crazy every time with them…lmao…it’s really hopeless…:P

23. Prashant - June 28, 2013

Fuck y’all talkin about…. Indians do steel bad in a plane I encountered that fact when I boarded my flight from Paris towards New Delhi … But there is a solution to that why don’t we just let every Indian board the plane first… U see indians are really hairy, u work them or u keep them waiting in a line they sweat more…. So if u treat Indian good as to not work them hard then u can have sweet environment with no SMELL. Jokes apart Indians may have given u troubles during Ur flight but they dnt mean any harm to you or anybody else well you talk about the other world that seems nice to you Americans and Britishers they have fucked u up badly many times u dumb fucks. Recognise the inner beauty ass holes.

24. Prashant - June 28, 2013

Hey I m sorry about this kind of language this freakin auto corrector in my tab fucked up my font and English is not my first language so hope u can read … Have a nice day

discardedbylife - October 9, 2014

You don’t write dumb fucks because of autocorrect.

Another Indian trait: compulsive lying and covering up.

25. fetzthechemist - June 28, 2013

I do not censor the comments on here. Although I have found some flight uncomfortable if a seatmate has strong body odor, I cannot hestly claim that I am odor free during a 15 or 16 hour flight. Plus, many people will get smelly. The Skin glands and bacteria vary and some people are born to have stronger smells.

But my focus was on the other conscious behaviours that intrude on me and infringe on my having a pleasant flight. Another’s increased enjoyment coming at the loss of mine or other passengers or the flight crew has to be moderate. When the result creates unpleasantness, that is rude and uncaring.

26. Indian - July 3, 2013

In India mother with baby is given priority and people accommodate for them. People who dont help are considered selfish and is not looked upon nicely.Indian mom’s are used to this behavior so expects this is the norm elsewhere too.

If you ever happen to be in a situation and need help, try these “cultureless” Indians. They will be more than ready to help you.

fetzthechemist - July 3, 2013

I would have tried to accommodate this mother if she had of asked. But the situation was that I had the aisle seat in the bulkhead area where she could have a baby bed put up. In the inside seat by the window this would have been no problem for her or me. The baby rests comfortably without interruptions. But she wanted the aisle seat with the baby bed set up in front of the middle seat and me at the window. It was a 16-hour direct flight. This meant no way to get up to use the rest room or to stretch without having to take down the baby bed, which meant she had to be awake also to d that. It was a very unpleasant 16 hours and she acted like she was putting up with me. I took one rest room trip in those 16 hour and that was the only stretching of my legs I got (but I extended that to almost a half hour of standing, stretching, and walking up and down the ailses. If she had of either been aware ome being a fellow person or had thought a little, she would have understood that the original seating was much better for her, her baby, and me.

27. Swifthorse - July 9, 2013

I agree with the comments above for most part! However during my travel I see probably 50% of Indians displaying his behavior not the overwhelming majority that the author seems to have experienced.As an Indian am as annoyed by the lack of ethics and consideration for others as anyone else. Let me add my two cents on why Indians behave the way they do.

Schools in India emphasize on the academic growth (Kids are expected to read & write by the time they are 5) and never give the social and emotional growth its due. Kids for most part are in class sizes of more than 40, have to work for the teacher’s attention and need to talk loudly (louder than his peers) to be heard in a group. This manifests into modified behavior of being loud at all times unconsciously.

I wish there was some way for airlines to “brief” these travelers on the basics- How to use the toilet (Remember most Indians are not used to them, they use squat ones), Keeping your volume down, tray in your seat and wet towels should be simple to manage if expectations are set ahead of time. I know this is a sensitive topic for the airlines but they will make their life easier with a briefing ahead of time.

However with increased globalization, am positive the percentage of well behaved Indians on an aircraft will increase!

28. fetzthechemist - July 9, 2013

The percentage is not 100 nor even 75, but it seems to be somewhere between a third and a half of the people, which can make these long flights more and more irksome. I do see well behaved Indians and some who even comment negatively about the bad behaviours. But since I fly a lot, it stands out. Do I hold out hope? No, some of it is that as more fly they might get familiar. But some things are so egocentric that I think the person is clueless.

29. jay - July 9, 2013

you fucking raciest dumb fuck. Your just jealous because indians are better than you in your chosen profession. Your days are numbered the the chinese and indians are coming to kick your lilly white ignorant ass.

fetzthechemist - July 9, 2013

Your arrogant ignorance highlights that Indians still need to learn a lot about the world. When youlearn to think and create, you might be able to coherently put together some ideas that others might want to listen to.

Merican Indian - July 24, 2013

Jay, shame on you. Just because some Indians are great brain surgeons doesn’t justify the whole race to be uncultured. India once was the land of civilization. India was the land which taught the world medicine, science, math, culture, philosophy, politics, yoga and the famous Kama Sutra. What have we now become? If you want to be patriotic, work with “our” people to raise them from this level of living rather than go around cursing people.

JJ - September 28, 2014

Please do not include Chinese. I don’t think Chinese thinking in this way.

30. Sonia Oche - July 24, 2013

oh please if you fly around europe you will find lots of stinky, rude and load europeans. In countries like Germany, Belgium and Netherlands people dont bathe everyday…its a known fact

fetzthechemist - July 25, 2013

I never was one to be offended by body odors. That can be a cultural issue, but often is only personal biochemistry and physiology. Some people have more of the skin glands that produce odors. I do not expect fresh smells from people on long air flights. I am commenting, myself, on behaviours such as not being aware and considerate of one’s fellow passengers or the crew members.

Mack - June 6, 2014

That doesn’t make an excuse for Your fellow county men to act uncivilised way in flights.. Will it?

31. Merican Indian - July 24, 2013

I was born in India and lived the majority of my life there. But now I am a Merican as it gets. I agree that Indians may not be cultured and polite, let alone be sophisticated. But this onerous quality of not respecting others personal space comes with quality of not minding ones own privacy either. So an Indian can lodge and feed his/her extended family or friends without minding their own privacy or comfort. Now, tell me how many people of European decent would do that? Westerners are so much into personal space that we cannot tolerate our own in-laws, family or friends over the invited period of time. The anomaly is,a westerner will serve his guest expensive wine but wont feed them a proper dinner.
I am not justifying the uncouth behavior of some people but urge you to see the big picture. And there are so many of us Indians who hate these kinds of behavior as much as any westerner and in the same vein despise our non colored friend “holier than thou” attitude too.

fetzthechemist - July 25, 2013

I am not disparaging Indian culture or its people as a whole. I am only commenting on the behaviours of a significant portion while they travel by airplanes. I have had numerous Indian colleagues and friends whose personal and professional behaviours was never an issue. But I never flew on long flights with them, either.

L N Iyer - September 12, 2015

Hi,
During a short break in my week end office time, I saw these conversations. First place I was annoyed and surprised about by hearing about our own people & their behaviour. But in most cases I go with you. The matter is, unlike you, living life on travel, they travel once in life time. That’s the difference. Otherwise The fights are your bed rooms whereas its their amusement place. Two extremes that cause the issue. it will be very very interesting to you to move towards our villages where cows, goats, pigs wandering around and 60-70% of our population lives in this surrounding [pls excuse if the % is wrong]. But persons like Bodhydharma, Buddha [after leaving his court yard], Mahanthma Gandhi on his 50+ yrs lived in this surrounding. But the heart of those Indians you saw always longing to accommodate the fellow living creatures. They give, share and enjoy it though they have handed over the last grain or penny they had with them. That’s the culture they are habitat ed and pass on generation after generation. I personally wish to host you to our mother land and please do call me when time permits.

L N Iyer
+919388431101

32. ZPlus - July 25, 2013

I don’t think your long flights with your Indian friends/colleagues might have an issue. But who knows 🙂
Talking loud – Is an issue – But its also a habit for most of them. If you do try to make a conversation with the same people, they may be quite pleasant.
Children running around – Most of these flights have families living in the US travelling back and forth India. Long flights are never good with children, leave alone with other’s children :). I felt the same exact way before I had my kids. LOL! I agree that some of them ignore the children behavior which I don’t support but the fact is there is not much which can be done, In a long flight, the parent is cranky and the kid is probably even more crankier!
And the culture itself doesn’t believe in rules for kids! My mom would use the term “Kids being Kids!” There is a huge cultural difference right there. A few try to control the kids but others leave it to the world(or someone in the flight) to teach it to the kid.

The other end of the spectrum – We travelled with my daughter when she was 2.5 yrs old(This is the age girls talk a lot) and we took a train from Paris to Geneva and we definitely got the looks everytime she would clap her hands and react to the “Nemo” story we were reading her. I warned her to do it quietly but that is all I could do. She is a baby for all practical reasons – what could I do more?
This is what I consider the other extreme behavior on being comfortable and wanting privacy
The Asian/Dubai sector has many more flights than before due to the demand and these exact families are the reason for those. So atleast one thing to be thankful for!

Plates on the walkway – Try telling a few to remove them and put it back on the tray tables. To your surprise they may just do that. I have done that before. Mostly they don’t realise the impact. Ignorance is bliss!
Odor – I completely agree. Hygiene & use of deodarants – Lack of knowledge. I even see people here in the US at work with this issue.
Education and culture play a huge portion of it. People don’t use deodarants there. Its slowly picking up now.
I am wondering if we can do something about the ignorance factor & and creating awareness.
I seriously believe you started this thread to vent. But may be you are onto something good.

fetzthechemist - July 25, 2013

Yes, the original was mainly venting. I have been pleasantly surprised that it has grown into being a discussion and discourse. I have learned some perspectives. Also, too, is that permissiveness with children on flights that has grown among all younger parents of all backgrounds. Kids being kids is just the excuse for them not putting out any effort to be a parent and is another aspect of parents now thinking and acting like their child(ren) is (are) perfection and the center of the universe. The poor children of the past 25 years are suffering because they are not all perfect, not all Einsteins, nor stellar in everything as their parents’ delusions kept telling them (but that ought to be a different post).

Yes, much of this is ignorance. Today, many poor and uneducated Indians travel to visit family in the US who can afford to pay for it. These are the ones who put trays in the aisle. Others are just used to being self-centered because in spite of the law the real vestigial caste system is still in Indian and they are better than youor me. I do find polite and courteous Indian people, too, but the others still are an irritant.

phusuke - August 13, 2013

What would add to a real discourse is if you tried to find out what are the source for these behavioral trends. Maybe you will learn something not just about Indians, but about yourself too.
Kids are way more precious in a place like India where they barely survive. This makes parents spoil and mollycoddle them. I do not claim this is good or bad, its just a behavioral trend.
Congregation is the only way to survive in India. Hence you will find indians congregating a lot more. Being social is not an option in India like it is in the USA. Its a requirement. People grow into that.

A lot of the social norms you seem to expect look like absolute luxuries in India. You wouldn’t know. When one is fighting for survival on a daily basis they cant be bothered to sip their tea right and stick their pinkies out. I hope its not too harsh on you.

33. My2Cents - July 28, 2013

I guess you should fly first class where the crew treats you wayyyyyy different than the rest of the plane passengers. Since you are so special and want to live in bubble of your arrogant kind.

fetzthechemist - July 28, 2013

I am talking about how the cabin crew treats me. I am not talking about the large portion of fellow passengers whounderstand that we are going through this together, where your gaining comfort at the expense of my discomfort is unfair. I paid for my ticket, just as they did theirs. That does not allow them to act as if it is their cabin area where they can treat other passengers and the crew with disrespect. I wish I were more arrogant so that I would treat these people equally badly as they do me and the others. I do not live in a bubble. I fly all over the world and some of these traits happen in other places with other peoples, but they are the exception. As others mention, certain Europeans can be rude and self-centered, so can some east Asians, Africans, and Americans. I do not like their intruding on my comfort and space and rights as a paying passenger, either. But as a group, these rude or clueless or self-centered Indians consistently are towards the top of any list. The comments of others who fly with them as passengers and crew support what I have said.

josephh - February 1, 2014

Oh you poor soul, I never realised that your life was so hard. Oh please, do tell me ABSOLUTELY everything wrong with these ‘horrible, savage, beasts!’ Honestly, I cannot believe how narrow-minded you are, ‘Fetzthechemist’! Try to understand that your way of life IS NOT the only way of life, and that every culture has their ways. If you go on holiday, you should expect to have people that are different from yourself there!

34. Eu2013 - August 2, 2013

I am European, I dont like travelling in a plane full of Indians either but worse than Indians are white Americans – there is nothing more disgusting than sitting next to a bunch of Americans on a flight… Listening to all the garbage talk that comes out of their mouth. If you say indians are loud then ask any european what we feel about americans being loud, no one is louder and more disturbing than americans….on top of it Americans are the most arrogant filthy uncouth stupid people in the world…..USA is a nouveau riche country with no culture, no history and no class….i lived in nyc for a few years and hated it after a while because i just couldnt stand american behaviour or even the kind of trash that gets attracted to the US….And ive travelled all over the US …americans are the most fake, plastic, prejudiced and seriously dumb people. Anyone with a bit of class will never move to the US. Indians have a long way to go before they can be civilised but they are certainly not a bigger eyesore than ugly fat badly dressed loud uncouth arrogant americans.

fetzthechemist - August 2, 2013

As travel has gotten cheaper and advertising of various forms draws more Americans to other places. Innocents Abroad by Mark Twain is about 150 years old. The Ugly American is much more than 50 years old. The uncouth and loudest of Americans is well documented. But it is less universal than in the past because more Americans live and travel abroad. I think the same is true of many lesser exposed and educated peoples. Many Europeans traveling to Dubai are not cultured or classy. The flights to Dubai or Cypress or other places are cheaper and open to people who used to never travel abroad. Maybe these experiences are just a reflection of the overall situation where more people travel and the neophytes make it a poor experience for their fellow passengers. But I rarely see most Euroopeans and Americans abusing the cabin crew, except for the noveau riche from any area, who are all trying to show their wealth and power (Indians, Americans, Arabs, Europeans can all be guilty of that).

Darin Kishore - September 7, 2013

The Kid here. I’m an Indian american. I feel sad. i get usually all A/B’s on tests…. 1080 words pe min. reading speed i have

PK - June 26, 2014

I’m chuckling because I appreciate a lot of the points EU makes. American culture is often vacuous and in recent years that has been exacerbated. Nonetheless, a lot of good has come out of the USA such as merging and taking the best of world cultures such as music and science and exporting it overseas. A lot of trash got sent as well. Keep in mind the Europe is not that far behind.

All that said, back to passenger behavior on planes. Most Americans on both domestic and international flights tend to be on their electronic addictions rather than talking loudly. FA’s should encourage Americans to turn these heroin like devices on as soon as possible because it keeps the majority of them quiet. Some Europeans even think it’s rude to watch an inflight movie while (gasp) eating a meal. These behaviors tend to keep passengers quiet rather than noisy though.

EU singles out white Americans as being especially rude. Perhaps that’s typical European craveness on his part (he wants to be racist, but targets whites to be safe?)

35. Naga Vadrevu (@YesIAmHereNow_) - August 2, 2013

I fly to texas & lousiana i find the samething…….nothing different in US…..huge people……take up ur hald the space on ur seat…….but cant complain thats not ur house……..

fetzthechemist - August 2, 2013

Big people are that way. The seat spaces are not the right size to fit everyone, but they cannot help their being big in that way. It is an annoyance, but I accept that because they are not intentionally taking up my space. The seats are just small. Flying can be a bother, especially on long flight. It is the things people do by choice that irritated me into starting this. When someone is standing in the aisle talking to their friend and standing in the area between seats, if I am in that aisle seat that encroaches on my seat space and the person has done that intentionally by choosing to stop and have a conversation and then relaxing by standing in my area and some even lean on my seat back.

Hari - August 13, 2013

I am Indian living in NZ..I change flight from singapore and i have this kind of issues as well in that flight. you should put big sign boards in plane or give some msg when showing flight security thing..awareness is right way to go..

36. Marc - August 3, 2013

Dear Fetzthechemist,

Thank you very much for posting of your experience. I am European national and I work for Emirates Airline. I agree with you 100 per cent. I am a Cabin Crew and it is very difficult for us to operate on flights with Indians and Mainland Chinese as majority of them are the rudest, stinkiest and noisiest passengers in the world. I fully understand how you have been affected from that, but like it or not 90% of the EK passengers flying to the US are Indians. I hope that posting this kind of information should be helful as we raise public-awareness about Indians and Chinese passengers. Please > others, do not understand me wrongly, I am not a racist; but it’s a bitter true that each and every crew of Emirates Airline hates to serve Indians because of the lack of culturedness, politeness and etc. There are many jokes and stories about Indian passengers among crew. I will try to publish them in this blog, if you do not mind.

All the best,

Marc

fetzthechemist - August 3, 2013

Thank you for your comments. If your comments are aimed at enlightening people so that they are aware of their behaviours, then please add more comments. I do not want to just bash and vilify Indians. Many are good seatmates. But some are the worst of fellow passengers and I wish that that were not so. A 16-hour flight is grueling enough, but if added annoyances and discomforts are also in it, it becomes torture.

josephh - February 1, 2014

I doubt you have ever had to fly with children! why can you not just be more acpeting, and stop telling us all about ‘how HARD your life is!

fetzthechemist - February 1, 2014

Flying with children does not mean that they should rampant doing anything that strikes them. This is an airplane full of other people and a crew trying to do their jobs. Children at some point ought to be taught that the world does not solely revolve around them (but since you are a student, you are probably of the generation of young parents who think their children are all kings and queens of everything and just screw anybody else who feels they have some place in this world).

37. green and blue - August 3, 2013

I do agree with this. No wonder the service is bad towards Indians sometimes on Emirates. The cabin crew realizes how unmannered they are. I am an Indian and yes I agree some Indians are not mannered at all. Emirates should make some type of policy about inflight behavior. I have been in EK 225/226 and seen these unmannered Indians. Even Cathay’s, Singapore’s, Lufthansa’s, Malaysian’s, Thai’s, British’s, Air France’s, and Korean’s crews will realize this sooner or later on their flights from USA (these airlines have good connections from USA to India). Etihad’s and Qatar’s crews have already realized this too. Even airlines of India (Air India, Jet Airways, Indigo, Spicejet, Kingfisher, etc.) are already starting to get mad at their pax for this.

38. dreamwalkeramrita - August 6, 2013

Hi. I’m an Indian, and I’m also a frequent flyer. I often notice the kind of behaviour that you’ve described during flights. In particular, I find the general attitude towards stewardesses detestable. And some people are so loud and obnoxious… its really annoying.

However, I take offense to some of the comments in response to your post. Indians are not ‘smelly’, nor do all of them lack a civic sense. And 99% Indians know how to use a toilet for God’s sake.

fetzthechemist - August 6, 2013

I do not censor the comments, but try to reply to them to make people more aware. My initial comments were about attitudes and behaviours. Many people can smell bad on a long trip. My flights from Dubai are not the first leg of most people’s journeys. They have been traveling or sitting in airports for hours. Smell is both a biological factor (some people have more of the skin glands that create odours than others) and cultural or personal choices. As far as the toilets, when over 200 people share for 16 hours the small number of them that are on an airplane, they get nasty. I do empathize with the crew who must try to keep them usable. Many people are not as careful as they ought to be. But this happens on every long-haul flight no matter the people who are flying. I get annoyed by the things people choose to do either through rudeness or obliviousness to others.

39. Jennifer Glass - August 6, 2013

It really varies, depending on the route: People traveling between India and the middle east / Singapore tend to be ‘workers’ and behave as such. Next are those traveling from/to India but have never been to the west. (Even when outside India, they tend to stay within their own, thus never learning how the rest of the world acts.) Yes, most of them can do with a dose of antiperspirant.

Most the above have been brought up in a culture of paucity, meaning they’ve always been taught to fight for resources, so their idea of cleverness is to grab as much as they can (freebies, extreme value for money, etc.)

I have total respect for the the flight attendants, especially in those long flights to/from India during the school vacation season.

Darin Kishore - September 7, 2013

The kid… Antiperspirant is unhealthy

40. Giorgio - August 7, 2013

I like how many people who have never taken SFO-DXB on EK are doubting how can it be different from civilized flight. I also laughed when “Indian” wrote that some Europeans are the same…Well, FYI Indian: Eastern European are a dream during the flights. They drink a lot, but they are cultured and polite and courteous. I am myself a gold member on EK, so I fly all over the world and must say US flights are the worst ones. Fetzthechemist, you forgot to add the infinite line of wheelchairs at the airport. Yes! Half of the India is handicapped before departure just to get through immigration without the queue and onboard as first ones. Bizarrely, at touchdown, the people that boarded from the wheelchairs are the first ones to run to the exit. Obviously throughout my flights I have met some nice Indians, so I don’t consider all of them bad. But among my flight experiences with different nations, I must admit without doubt, that probability of a bad experience with Indian passengers is much higher than any else I know. Had similar experiences as Fetzthechemist with people refusing to change their seats, pushing you, being simply rude to the crew. They can make the smoothest flight a nightmare. I am always very sympathetic to the crew, when I see what they have to deal with.

fetzthechemist - August 7, 2013

I, too, am a gold member on Emirates since I have taken that round trip of 226/ 225 about 2 dozen times in the past 3 years. My experiences on other carriers are high, as well, having flown about a dozen domestic flights in that same time period on Delta, United, US Airways, and Southwest. Other overseas flights have been on Qatar, British Airlines, Lufthansa, KLM, and Korean Air. Not were as filled with annoying interactions as any of the Emirates ones full of Indian passengers, except when I cashed in milage to upgrade to business-class seating.I am hoping that being courteous to passengers and crew and respecting my rights as I respect theirs. I travel again to Dubai in 2 weeks and am not looking forward to the journey itself.

Crystal - August 7, 2013

Giorgio, as an Ex EK Crew Member, your comments are spot on!
Indeed all of these incidences do occur. And it does not get any better regardless of the class one is seated. Behaviour of this segment of passengers, by and large for the most part is continually shocking. I still hear horror stories from my friends whom regardless if they have been working for 5 or 6 years as Cabin Crew, are nevertheless appalled at how rude Indians on these flights can be. Really, it is inexcusable behaviour, especially for those travelling to the Americas or Europe in my opinion, as this intolerable behaviour will not take them far upon landing.

41. rishi - August 9, 2013

I’m sorry that you have so many problems n issues with indian people, next tym u board that plane tell ur fellow indian passenger about what you think about them!! I’m very sure whatever that indian will reply, it will change your view about india n its people.
namaste jai hind!!
p.s n for all other fellow indians in this post
guess what I’m proud to be an Indian.

fetzthechemist - August 9, 2013

My real inclination sometimes is to act just like they do in order to see the reactions. If you are proud of Indians no matter their behaviours, you are a zealot. Having awareness and respect for others is not being unpatriotic. You equate supporting bad behaviour as being a good and proud Indian. This misguided nationalism overlooks anything bad or evil as tolerable if done by one of your countrymen. I am sad for India and her people because that attitude will hold her back from being a better place.

Vikram - October 4, 2013

People like Rishi are the problems and they defame India throughout the world. I live in India myself and the problems with most of the Indians is they are not willing to accept new ideas or change their behaviors. If you give them a new idea they start prophesizing their culture which is more or less corrupted.

These people are rude carry irrelevant attitude and think they are the most intelligent people in the world. My family has been living in India for last 30 years and even though i was born and brought up here their ways many times makes me sick to my stomach.

42. Srinath - August 12, 2013

How can you claim to be “not racist” when you are making sweeping generalisations about “Hindu Indians”,I am sorry we don’t fit your “western standards”,guess you will have to live with that

fetzthechemist - August 12, 2013

I never brought the Hindu religion or its practices into the discussion, except to say the well-known truth that the caste system is only against the law and many (former) high-caste Indians still live with those values when dealing with others. Many Indians behave well, whether they be living in India, the US, Europe, the Middle East. I have met many. But a large proportion do not. They retain their Indian perspective and values and lifestyles and attitudes even when they are in another place or circumstance. They either are oblivious or they intentionally decide not to adapt others to fit into where they are. When traveling, everyone is crowded into a small places for hours and hours. These Indians do not recognize that it is a journey shared with others.

josephh - February 1, 2014

I am English, and yet living abroad I completely agree with you, these people are ridiculous. You cannot go on holiday and expect people to be just like you, you go on holiday to understand DIFFERENT cultures, so don’t expect these Western ideals to be standard!

43. Indian - August 13, 2013

I agree with your observations but as an Indian I have a more precise one – when you say Indians, say specifically Indians from the cow belt – the “north Indians”. Gujaratis, Marathis, Malayalees, Tamils and Punjabis are definitely as well behaved as you would find the rest of the world to be.

fetzthechemist - August 13, 2013

Thank you. I do have friends who are Punjabis and Tamils. They are very nice.

Roy - September 22, 2013

Hmm I can see and understand your frustrations , trust me being Indian well NRI ( as most of India likes to point out on a daily basis ie not required Indian as opposed to Non resident Indian ) it is a shame that even today people from India try and prove they are better than other states as exemplified by Indian on Aug 13 2013 .
Trust me on this I probably get treated a lot worse than you have found , on flights to India by Indian cabin crew , by Non Indian cabin crew –and after reading the experiences I can perhaps understand better why . In India it is not much better generally unless you have the 2 universal languages of Money and Contacts ..yes Love is a all correct in theory but try buying a house , getting a document approved or even just finding information without contacts and money

Historically the people who left India are Punjabis , Gujratis, Keralites etc and by association the ones who travel will be by far relatives of this group and with the simple law of averages the group you meet will be from these communities .
Tamils do not like N Indians, Gujratis believe no reason to learn the language , Bengalis believe they are the best at everything , Punjabis believe India consists of only Punjab and a few other states, Keralites well I could go on but this is Indian nature sadly , hence you see what and why the country is in this state

No matter what I do how I change I will be judged initially by appearance , and human nature as it is will find it very hard to apologise/ accept one made a mistake –as the feeling is ” will never see him again so best ignore ” . probably a pride thing

What happens here is that some of us who do not deserve it get the wrong end peoples anger/ disappointment/ frustration/judgement and it sours the experience because eventually even we and I am sure you will ask
” why me when I am innocent” . And I can be the bigger man and not take offence and be noble not to give offence but the last man who did that was Abraham Lincoln , A Great President, and for the educated we all know what happened to him

Then as rude obnoxious smelly dirty people get what they want and cabin crew stay quiet , guess what ..maybe thats what people become and sadly a lot start acting that way

Anywhow I do write a lot so will not bore you , but India She is a Great Country with a Great History and may I say Great people . Currently and for the last 1000 years She has been ruled by the minority for the minority groups , a history lesson not for this forum , and now We are ruled by a very weak and corrupt Government , so it will take time

But as Clarence said in True Romance life sometimes just sometimes goes the other way , and this keeps me smiling and my faith in not only Indians , India but even Chinese , Arabs , Europeans , Americas , Asians etc etc

Swamy - August 15, 2013

Jeez, I was hoping someone said that. Stupid ‘north indians’. As an Indian I feel disgraced. If only the country wasn’t so god damn vast.

Udit malhotra - May 18, 2015

Balls to you.. I am also an Indian.. And seen enough of people like you from our country who see some regions to be superior and blame people of other region for everything
. . . There are many and enough of people from the places u have mentioned behaving mean and badly on flights… Don’t forget it’s the same culture and mentality.. Indians forget to accept an aircraft as a transport medium… They think aircraft as a restaurant and hotel.. Somebody spoke about the amount of wheelchairs they use to board the flights just to get the preference in immigration queues.. People from gujrat are only famous for this.. As I say Indians come on board to just eat eat and eat, drink, shit and fart.. I feel so disgusted with this behaviour of my country people and if you tell them anything they will fight and make a noise about it. Very negative people… And always keeps on complaining… They don’t understand customer service infact to make them behave the best tool is to be direct and straight with them which would appear as a rude gesture but that’s how they understand things…

44. Ujjwal - August 13, 2013

You could have asked any noisy passenger to quieten down. Or asked them to stow the trays somewhere other than the aisle. Doing that would have actually helped to deter them from doing it in the future (some of those people might be completely oblivious about the correct thing to do).

Instead, you make a post that makes sweeping generalizations and achieves nothing whatsoever.

fetzthechemist - August 13, 2013

I do ask people who gather near my seat and talk loudly during the “sleeping” time to please speak more quietly because I am trying to sleep. The reactions are almost always stares or even glaring looks thst I am being the rude one. This is particularly annoying when they are not nesrby seat mates and just choose to meet near my seat.

I have told people with trays in the aisles that thry block people going through, esprcially the crew with their carts. They often react by seeming to be put upon rather than being made aware of the proper way. I wrote the post original after about 4 round trips to Dubai. I now have flown around twenty and see thr pattern happen again and again.

This is why I think some Indians behave badly. They do not care even if it is pointed out.

phusuke - August 13, 2013

In a parallel universe where Indian mannerisms are the norm, you ARE the rude one. And guess what they are from such a place. How hard is that to understand? How about you use earplugs or cover your eyes with eyeshades. You really are just whining about not getting what you are used to at home you know ?
Remember when you first left your moms place and slept in a dorm and the kids around you were not what you expected ?

CarlosB - May 20, 2015

This is a rant posting site. That’s why we are here. What it achieves is in fact nothing. Just as you say.
But, I feel so much better venting about the abusive, rude, inconsiderate, ill mannered, superior minded individuals that frequently fall from this sub-continent.

For those who acknowledge your fellow citizens poor behavior, I commend you.

CarlosB - June 3, 2015

Are you looking for a fight? If you ask anyone, anything today. People become so defensive and argumentative.

45. phusuke - August 13, 2013

You definitely do not sound very civilized here sir. Know that being born in a richer society does not make you a better person, and vice versa. I thought the “west” was educated enough to realize that. Also saying “this is fact” doesn’t mean you aren’t racist as you have shown in this rather unabashedly racist post. If you want to test that claim, how about you talk shout about bad credit and high crime rates in an African American neighborhood in the USA. I would love to see you claim its a fact and that its not racist then.
You don’t have to be scared shitless to act like the sophisticated person you claim to be.

fetzthechemist - August 13, 2013

If these com.ents are so offensively racist, why are there. Any who agree and several are also Indians? When I am sitting in my seat and a passenger has put his suitcase in the overhead bin above me, I do not care, even if while trying to get something from it he brings it down and hits me with it. Accidents do happen. But if he does not even apologize with a simple”sorry” he is rude and uncaring.

On planes I do not expect better treatment by others. I should not have to have a less tolerable flight so that someone else’s is better. Your insistence thst this is racism just belies the issues and makes them excusable because Indians who are obliviou, rude, or self-centered should be able to be that way. As I said before, being as rude and uncaring is not my nature. That does not mean I enjoy it. People that put themselves above others by doing whatever they want are not being good, they are behaving in ways that would be terrible if everyone were that way

phusuke - August 13, 2013

Racism is not a democratic thing sir. It doesn’t matter how many African American slaves thought of themselves as inferior it was still wrong, it still is.

Obviously you cannot be bothered with the quirks and subtleties of language and interaction in other cultures but I will try my best. Most Indians do not apologize or thank people very much. Not because they are self centered. These are highly formal interactions in indian culture, reserved for the gravest of mistakes and biggest of helps. A nod of the head or a shake of the eyes are usually all that happens. Again do not mistake me, I am not claiming one way is better or worse as you are, herein lies the difference. They are all just different social norms.

When you share a common space it is as much up to you to adapt to others as it is theirs. I am not for a second trying to belly any issue. I am pointing out the issue, you. You need to understand that no one needs to care for or about you. No one needs to be nice to you and definitely no one needs to conform to your social and cultural ideas of “good” behavior.

Having said that you have every right to communicate your ideas of good behavior to anybody, but to expect it as a given shows nothing but arrogance.

fetzthechemist - August 13, 2013

If I got a nod or look of any sort, I would have understood. But there is often no response to someone stepping out of the aisle and standing on my foot to chat with a friend. I do not expect western or east aAsian customs. If I was describing situations in India on a plane or train, my expectations would be different. But these happen outside of Indian. Indians ought to learn that everywhere is not India and acting like it is is not correct. If Indian really desires to be a global economic power, then Indians must learn this to succeed (I will say that sadly many Americans and Europeans who travel do not know this, either).

Nowhere have I mentioned my ethnicity, only my nationality. You assume mine, but you are wrong enough to not understand that my racial attitudes come from personal receiving of bias and prejudices. You think that everyone who sees anything away from perfection amongst your countrymen must be racist and that is an attitude that ought to have you looking at yourself more than casting blame on another.

fetzthechemist - August 13, 2013

Some of these behaviours should be universally thought of as bad. Passengers each have an assigned seat. If there are changes desired, it is not a unilateral decision by one passenger to take the seat of snother. Even in India there must be some understanding and respect for individual ownership or do people just steal each other’s cars, houses, and other possesions? On a plane this is asked for by the person wanting the change. The change is a favour by one person, not a required acceptance of a demand.

Being rude to the crew is inexcusable also. But Indians do not treat each other that way. Hhhmmm…. now who is really the superior race dealing with the inferior one in their minds?

Seri - August 15, 2013

Indians are the rudest people. They indeed are. They also are also the most racist people you’ll find. They treat every other Indian the same way you have been treated. Notice the clever ones just leave the country for good.

josephh - February 1, 2014

Commenting back onto “seri’s” post, I find you to be a major hypocrite. You are basing your opinion of of maybe 200 Indians out of the 1.2 billion Indians there are to start of with, and how can you consider this enough to state the claim you have brought forth. Furthermore, you claim that, “Indians are the most racist people you’ll find”. I think that others will agree with me when I tell you this, you are a racist and a hypocrite and your opinion is completely biased. You claim that a whole 2.2 billion people are the most racist people you will ever meet… Extreme much? Why ON EARTH do you expect the world to conform to Western formalities! We all live differently, and you DO NOT travel the world expecting people to be as ‘perfect’ as YOU! I am sorry if these ‘racists’ are not up to your standards, oh great and all powerful Seri. If we had it your way, you would just kill all these ‘racist’ would you not? Oh, but I assume it would all be for the ‘greater good’, no?

46. phusuke - August 13, 2013

So you do concede that everything apart from some “universally bad” behaviors are a case of you wanting house rules? Glad to have that established. Moving on.
I seriously doubt anybody ran away with your baggage or just usurped your seat and refused to give it back to you. I have been travelling similar routes long enough to know that, but ill give you that if someone did that to you.

I hope you have flown enough european routes to see how old rich white dudes from France and Germany treat cabin crew. And again your sense of “rude” is also contrived from a different social structure. Just because they don’t sub consciously blurt out thank you and sorry and excuse me over every sentence does not make them rude. And besides it is the duty of the crew to account for cultural differences such as this.

Every time you are claiming in this thread that you aren’t asking to be treated special, in fact you are. You expect people to leave their decades long social structures and behavioral practices so you can sleep for a night. And in return you offer to change none of your own practices. “Lets all stick to my rules so its easier for ‘everybody’ ” yeah?

I understand a lot of things can be done ‘better’ by a lot of people. Indians included. You included. Spewing hate never did anybody any good.

Sridar - August 15, 2013

Clam down, we all know how annoying other Indians can be. I am sure any rational Indian feels much and more disgraced. It’s not racist if its true.

47. onefootstep - August 13, 2013

Hi buddy,

I am an Indian, living in India and travel occasionally. I know what you are saying is true. It is. Absolutely. But i would just like to point one thing out. While you aren’t wrong about anything you mentioned, not all of us are like that. I know how i am perceived whenever i am abroad or traveling. I make sure i do not do all what you described above. I often speak up against my own countrymen who do this. Many times i have been ridiculed and laughed upon for doing so. I have been chided and called a slave of the whites. Whatever that means. I can only tell you one thing – Not everyone of us is like that. So please, i hope i am able to change a little bit of your perception about us, As for the others, they come from extreme narrow mindedness and lack of interest in anything else apart from themselves and their work. Hope this helped.

An Indian.

Naturel Love - November 8, 2013

I had been on flights with lots of Indians on board, I also heard from stewardess friends about the same complains. From my personal experience, its true. But I cannot ignored the fact that some Indians are polite, kind and helpful. They are rare and are the real Gems of India. If you met these good Indians, please be kind and praised them for their good character and attitude. They have been judged for being the same as rude Indian majority, and discriminated by the boorish indians for being polite, and I feel for them.

48. phusuke - August 13, 2013

“Indians ought to learn that everywhere is not India and acting like it is is not correct.”

Haha yet you don’t want to realize that you aren’t in good old freedom giving Merica while flying eh?

“then Indians must learn this to succeed”
Communication is a 2 way street, the world will learn as one, not in any one direction.

“You think that everyone who sees anything away from perfection amongst your countrymen”

You assume my nationality good sir. But sure it happens to be correct as Im sure my guesses were. Also I don’t expect any generalizations of my countrymen or anyone. Thats the whole idea of not being racist.

“casting blame on others”
There are no blog posts from Indian men about uppity americans. No one is blaming you just calling out your inherent racism.

“my racial attitudes come from personal receiving of bias and prejudices.”
Im sorry you had to go through that, now why would you do that for others ?

Everyone can do better things and things better. Hate doesn’t help anyone. Spread information if you can not hate.

fetzthechemist - August 13, 2013

You confuse a prejudice against certain behaviours with racism. If I had been on a flight of American or Dutchmen and they acted the same ways, I would have said the same things with a slightly different title. Most Indians who fly realize that it is not an Indian setting. If it were set up that Emirstes flights had rules explicitly stated about behaviours, the Arabian attitudes that would frame thosecwould be much stricter than mine and would have racially different expectations. British Airways does and it is quite British. Crew members are in chatge and passengers must obey.

I have learned some from this post and the other perspectives will be useful and I will try to take them into consideration. But these flights always have some new surprises.

phusuke - August 13, 2013

Nope. Racism is but a specific kind of prejudice. In fact racism can be defined as prejudice against people of a certain race. Prejudice is a negative term, I hope you realize that. No one will applaud you for displaying timely prejudice if that what you were going for.
Excellent case in point about the different airlines. It gives a good perspective. One can thusly imagine that norms are not what they seem in an aircraft. Its actually more interesting than I thought and needs some further investigation.

If an American had done this you have every right to make statements about conduct as you truly understand the social setting to make a judgement. If you had likewise spent a large portion of your time in India and understood Indian customs etc you would be entitled to state who is rude and who is not.
Just because you come across as Ignorant and racist in this post, it would be a folly to judge all americans likewise or talk about “racist american bloggers”.

I hope you handle your further surprises better. Also hope you understand I meant you no bad.

fetzthechemist - August 13, 2013

An airplane flight that is not within India or even has a starting or ending point in India should not be a place where behaving as if you are in India is acceptable. It is a crowded, mixing point where everyone has to adapt and minimize the negative impact on each other. My main point is that these people do not choose or care to. They say “I am not going to change one small bit”. If I were traveling in India, I would not expect them to change, but they are not. There may be other people’s with similar attitudes, but I have not had that experience yet, so I do not have an opinion or blog about it. But in any setting that is not one of a specific culture or within a specific nation, the behaviours of one group ought not to ride roughshod over others. Indians should do better as a nation and a culture to fit into these situations. Americans can be the rudest most self-centered people and we denigrate each other for this boorishness through numerous newspaper, magazine articles, jokes, and books such as the Ugly American. Most Americans who travel now are aware that being American everywhere is bad behavior. Some still persist and their fellow American travelers think badly of them, too. Indians are now moving out into this internationalism, travelling more and living inmany nations. Most learn and adapt well. The rest need to lest they become the boorish Indian (of the future) who is characterized in jokes, books, movies.

I do know that India is diverse, has ancient cultural history and traditions, and has given much to the world. That is not my point, to denigrate India. My original post may be too generalized, but the proportion of Indians doing these things is somewhere between a quarter and a third of the people. That proportion ought to drop as people get more used to travelling and understanding that the world is not India. The old saying is “When in Rome…”.

49. fetzthechemist - August 13, 2013

There are norms on planes. On these flights they do call them sleep periods or something like that. Ghey turn all the lights down low or off.

As I described, one woman decided she wanted my aisle sest and not her window one. Rather thsn have her removed from the plane, I acceded to her after the purser told her to move and she would not.

My norm on a plane is that my seating area is my space. I respect that of those next to me and when in the aisle I try not to elbow someone sitting beside it or in any way intruding on their space. Airlines are odd places where you buy an area for a flight and it is not a communal arrangement.

If the majority of Indians know to behave as I expect, then the minority either are from different regions as one Indian states or from different social strata as other Indians state or they are inherently oblivious or rude. I am seeing this in a portion, but not most Indians. Why is thst?

50. phusuke - August 13, 2013

Sir nobody is denying that you have had issues with your co passengers. Everyone faces that. Its part of the hardship of commuting in small cramped spaces with such a large number of people. An environment you are clearly not used to being in. The problem is the racist nature of your projections of these issues. phew.. i feel like im going in circles.

Whether you like it or not you aren’t “entitled” to peace and quite during “sleeptime” in a common area.
Neither is there any “personal” space in an aircraft with 300+ people apart from the seat you are planted on. And no there are no social norms for planes like you would love to believe. Regulations and norms are different things. You are projecting your norms as what is ‘accepted’ in an aircraft, that is the problem.

I have seen a friend’s mom from Africa dance and sing in an aircraft. Unsafe as it may be, it made me realize that there is nothing technically wrong about it. She was simply expressing joy the way she wanted to. I could be a whiny bitch and cry about it or appreciate the differences and talk to her as to why it could be disturbing or suck it up and goto sleep.

You think there are ‘some’ indians who misbehave but have titled and written the post like all or most Indians do. This is what the problem is and if not now i hope you eventually realize the fallacy of such thinking and wording.
And let me make one more think verrryyy clear.. there is NO way in hell you can differentiate between Indian, pakistani, nepali or bangladeshi on first glance. The very sentence made me laugh. Even people from those countries cant do that.

The most you can do is request people to be accommodative of your needs. A good place is to be accommodative of theirs too.

51. V - August 13, 2013

As an airline pilot and a frequent flyer. Flying as a passenger is one of those times when I truly feel ashamed of my countrymen.

Economy class in Emirates is a showcase of bad manners.

And I have to agree that Pakistanis and Sri Lankans are surprisingly classier than us Indians.

52. Maverick - August 13, 2013

I am an Indian and most of the allegations stated above are factual statements. However, we are a billion plus and counting…so there is no way that we can all be in one category of ‘Indians’.

We have different educational/cultural experiences which define us as individuals. I am a frequent flyer and dread the last leg of an Indian flight…if you are complaining about US to Dubai..wait till you get on board a Dubai to Delhi flight…that is even worse.

However, what we lack in cultural finesse we make up with having a big heart…if you ever actually ‘interact’ with those very Indians that are smelly and loud and boorish…you will realize that most of them will go out of their way to accommodate your needs…even inviting you to their homes and interacting with their families..something which is tough for the average Westerner with their individualistic stance towards life.

Having said that, what nice ‘cologne’ smelling Indians (btw – the size of this section of our society will be larger than the population of most western countries) want is the same as what you want…but they also do not get it…the last leg of airplanes coming to India are mostly bad in terms of quality of interiors and specifically the crew behavior.

The sad part is that with good education and exposure the ‘cologne’ smelling Indians are multiplying but in the US the ‘expletive’ mouthing barely educated section of the society is multiplying…I see that given another 40 to 50 years…this thread will be reversed…and will get started by an Indian fed up of uneducated, uncouth and smelly Americans on the flight!!

53. AS - August 13, 2013

great confirmation bias. as a chemist and a scientist this sounds very very scientific and based on solid data.

54. From the land of Non violence - August 13, 2013

hey my friend… to me it looks blunt reaction to few of your experiences… I had many bad experiences handling Americans but I don’t have a generalised view/ feeling’s for them. Trust me my friend we Indians are much better than what you perceive. Don’t comment on what you have experienced in few flights… India has a rich culture and we have a history to be proud of. We are the people who are the most tolerant ones… we have never attacked any country.., we take pride in saying that with so much of diversity we are one of the most peace loving nation in the world. We are not arrogant as what you think about India. My request … please do not generalise …

fetzthechemist - August 13, 2013

Your comment about generalization has been taken. I made it sound universal when it is only a fraction. But now it is not just a few flights. It is well over twenty round trips, almost fifty flights, and I see the same types of behaviours. But I also see the bulk who are aware that we are enclosed together for a long time and must try to make it less disagreeable for each other.

55. Rohan Tiwari - August 13, 2013

I am an Indian and never been in a plane.

I just wanted to say – I am sorry on their behalf.

If I fly, I would keep these points in mind.

Michael - November 14, 2013

Apology not needed my friend….

Do you think us Brits give a damn for raping your land and becoming one of the richest nations off your resources at the expense of your people?

If we left you in peace who knows where your nation would be.

When India becomes a superpower (as we fall further into obscurity) I just pray you treat us kinder than we treated you!

56. zaphodbeeblebrox - August 13, 2013

Interesting post! Been going through all the comments here, I am going to take an 13hour flight in a few days from JFK to Delhi…reserving my comments for after.

zaphodbeeblebrox - August 13, 2013

ooh..forgot to mention, it is going to be on AIr India!!

57. AV - August 13, 2013

I have seen Indians misbehave on an airplane and I might have seen same number of Americans being unaccommodating in general. From american toddlers crying all night in a long haul flight to asian kids running around between the aisles. On a flight from LHR to EWR, I had a seat next to a rude condescending Britisher who brought his own headphones (the one’s which leak sound) and kept listening to music on a high volume most of duration of the flight. I requested him to turn the volume down but he won’t. This other time flying from SFO to HKG, I was seated next to a big american guy who drank more than he should, passed out with his mouth wide open and stank of beer through out the 11 hour flight. The worst experience though was sitting next to an old german gentleman who would lift his butt up every few minutes and fart. He might have had some medical condition but nonetheless I did not go and blog about how all germans are fart machines. I have even seen airline staff being deliberately rude and harsh to to a few Indian and Chinese passengers who did not speak english very well. Yes, Indians might be too extreme but I do not like exactly like to single any one nationality out. Traveling on different routes might change your perspective Mr. Frequent flyer. I believe every nationality has its own share of people “Clueless, egocentric, rude to the maximum.”

58. Bundchungal - August 13, 2013

My name is Bundchungal and I am from Punjab. I agree that people can be quite irritating. It should be noted that every country/race has their hillbillies and rednecks. I have seen American and Canadians behave badly especially when they visit South Asia and South Est Asia. When I was in Viet Nam they just behaved so badly with the women. They think it is their right to get everything and they do NOT care for the others. I have also seen Europeans behave poorly in Turkey and also Thailand. Then there are the Chinese who spit and have the audacity to crap whenever and wherever they want. The Arabs stink just as much as the Chinese. But what I found funny is that Americans and Europeans while they might smell nice with their cologne they are very dirty. They do not brush their teeth and do not wash their hands after visiting the bathroom (Toilet). So while I appreciate the remarks that have been made it should be accepted that others around the globe have their fair share of slobs and degenerates. This fact is compounded when there is a plane load of them. I try not to criticize but the tome of the rants on this blog is racist and condescending. In contrast I found the Japanese the cleanest in my extensive world travels. The worst are the Americans and Europeans because of their bullying/overbearing nature and general disregard for cleanliness. We all can improve and this blogs points to many things that we all should be aware of and learn from.
Sincerely,
Bundy

fetzthechemist - August 13, 2013

Yes, hillbillies and rednecks. Indian is modernizing rapidly and the influx of wealth make travel easy. Some of these might be relatives of someone living the the US, visiting and unaccustomed to the world. Thus, the seeming disproportionate number of them. Like the suddenly oil-rich Texans of a century ago or Arabs of more recent years. But it is annoying to deal with in frequent and repeating incidents. Different people, same behaviours.

Americans and Europeans vary, individually and nationally. Grooming and bathing/ showering regularly are more common noow and in certain regions. As I have said, that is not n my list of things that bother me. Since several of the comments state that my comments are racist, I will have to assess this (but with all these comments, I hope they differentiate mine from those of others). If I am standing at the toilet waiting, and an Indian barrels past me as the person exit it, I will ascribe my reaction as racist now because obviously Indian customs say that waiting in a que are stupid. If someone gets their bag out of the overhead and drops it so it hits me and does not say “Sorry” or some apology, my reaction will be racist because Indian customs must say that hitting someone is just part of a day’s happenings. If I go on board and find an Indian sitting in my seat, I cannot object. That is racist.

AV - August 13, 2013

What I find funny is how most of Indians here are protesting on grounds of racism when perhaps to my knowledge India is one of the most racist place on the planet. Caste based politics, nepotism based on caste and ‘lower-class, upper-class’ is still a concept in India.

learningtoflywithoutbeingrude - August 14, 2013

Its sad that such behavior is seen consistently – we Indians dont have this habit of being polite or apologetic in large stratas of our society (we dont do it and dont expect it) – I am not condoning any of this but merely accepting this to be true – of course the generalisation is certainly extreme.This I hope will gradually improve over time (BTW Chinese are fighting hard or may be worse than Indians already from what I have experienced). I guess I have been luckier in my travels as I have not seen such terrible behavior (seen a couple and across nationalities) As for the comments on being racist – we humans invariably are racist. Hindus may have formalised it in the caste system but every human being does this – “the people like us” syndrome is what I would call it. Anyone not “like us” is usually ‘lesser’ to us though many do have an inferiority complex that makes them see some of the “others” as being superior. So while the caste system is a terrible thing, its funny when people who have themselves discrimated in the past and continue to do so against people who are “not like them” get on the high horse and talk about Indians and their caste system!! And yes one more thing – its amazing that you can make out Pakistanis and Nepalis and SLs and Bangaldeshis from each other – as an Indian who has worked with many of these nationalities in Dubai, I certainly can’t!!

59. Anagha - August 14, 2013

Sadly agree with the post. I am from India but have lived in the US for a long time now. I dread taking the plane ride, especially with my kids. I have seen that the elderly Indians who are probably visiting their kids settled in America do not understand the etiquette of traveling. I have had two occasions where such elderly gentlemen have kicked my seat from the back asking me not to recline as I was “taking up” their space. And one time I was pregnant and traveling alone with a 2 year old. I had to call the crew to settle the issue. The younger generation is somewhat better.

60. Vise - August 14, 2013

Well,

Every culture has their typical traits but at least these traits are not destructive or devastating but plain annoying to those not from the culture.,

If you want me to list the dangerous traits of Americans or Brits or Germans which are more destructive in nature I can keep ranting, but the fact is you can’t change a thing.

Bear with it or fly in your own chartered flight (typical American way – wasting 200% resources and complain others are reason to world problems).

Or try opening a training center and mint money.,

But you are not even 20% of population, and US is not the center of the world and don’t push you nasty beer drinking, stripper and bachelor party culture across the world.

61. Sachin - August 14, 2013

I know how you felt man. Just chill out by watching the video about indians on youtube . Hope you feel better 🙂 😀

youtube search keyword : Indian don’t rob banks
comedy by : Gabriel Iglesias

62. Ganesh - August 15, 2013

Well I agree with what you pointed out in the blog. Sometimes we too feel bad about these. You are seeing most of indians behaving in same way because of the kind of society and facilities we have in our country. Yes there is quite a long way to improve things. We never had any wrong intentions of hurting anyone and complaining like western people (Thats why Indians are able work with all different cultures). Read your blog again from an Indian perspective, you are just abusing another culture. Dont you think we get annoyed by your culture. I have traveled to Holland, Germany and France. People never even tried helping tourists if they have missed a route. Once in a bus in Germany, driver asked me get out of the bus as I have asked for a ticket to a particular place but the tickets are per zone. He could have explained it.

What about Americans wearing short clothes when they visit our temples. But as we treat our guests as gods, we politely tell them. We are human beings first then citizens of a country or culture. Nothing wrong in saying what you dont like. But not this way.

Darin Kishore - November 10, 2013

U frgt the ? mark after temples…

63. NeverAgainEmirates - August 17, 2013

In my experience Emirates is the worst airline for Body Odour! On a flight from Australia to Singapore I sat down and immediately could smell the passenger behind me. The smell decreased as the cabin temperature declined after take-off but mid-flight the cabin temperature increased (perhaps because someone complained it was too cold) and the smell returned with such intensity that I had to ask to move seats or I would vomit. Fortunately they could let me move seats as there was one where the entertainment unit did not work… this provided me much relief. BUT it wasn’t just one passenger I found with BO but many on the plane who you could smell as they walked past to go to the tiolet. I experienced the same on the return leg, but they were not sitting behind me! I’ve flown on many airlines including Chinese and I’ve NEVER experienced anything like this.

64. IHateEuropeanAirlinesandIDoNotBlogAboutIt - September 5, 2013

You’re lucky that the plane full of Indians didn’t break out into a singing-dancing sequence like it happens in Bollywood movies! After all EK 225 and EK 226 are 16 hour flights one way and WE NEED some entertainment to kill those boring hours…

I am an Indian and on a serious note, I do empathize with your repeated ordeals with fellow Indian travellers. However, you also need to first understand why we behave the way we behave. A lot of fellow Indians have already tried to explain it in their comments. The only point I’d make is that every person’s behavior is heavily driven by tons of socio-economic and cultural factors. I will not elaborate about it much here; however, I do want to point out to some specific in your blog.

Do you know that a lot of these travellers whom you refer “uncomprehending pair of sheep-eyes” maybe elderly who may have NEVER got a chance to get a decent education with English as a primary language? Yes, in India, until last couple decades (and even now), most people got educated with their mother tongue being primary language, and for them highly “accented” English is nothing but a blabber – but they still manage by following the crowd.

A basic education for someone who ranted about Wheelchairs in one of the comments – Language barrier is also a reason that elderly Indians opt for Wheelchairs (even though they have no issues walking through the entire airport) just to avoid any inconvenient communication in the entire travel process, especially with immigration officers (FYI – Immigration officers tend to have high temper when they are faced with language issues).

Tomorrow, some Indian may rant about the exact same issues you faced in his blog but rather referring to the dorm systems of America where pupils are extremely unruly, indulging in drugs, sex, alcohol and bullying and causing ruckus for fellow international students. And then one could argue that the Indian is being is racist or not.

Yes, Indians smell but that maybe because the spicy food they eat. However, you know what’s worse – its the body odor that Americans emit in the Night clubs, especially after smoking joints. We don’t go and write a freakin’ blog about it.

My two cent for you is THINK before you generalize. We have issues too but we ADAPT and live with it.

PS: I noted your multiple direct and subtle mentions of your Gold membership with Emirates. You know it would have been a Platinum membership by now had you been travelling First or Business class. Just sayin’.

fetzthechemist - September 6, 2013

I understand the socio-economic and cultural issues. Usually yjose in a situation outside of their norm will pull back and try to not be obtrudive. But in a situation with so many other Indians, these onez do not. The herd behaviour enboldens them not to adjust.

Yes, I was a gold member. Emirates rsised the mileage and I took a more than seven months hiatus from going yo Dubai, so I am back to silver. My trip last week went better, but it was only a quarter or third being Indianz. Coincidencd that it wss quieterand fewer didcomforts?

65. Darin Kishore - September 7, 2013

Guys i am an indian kid and this is sorta mean but its sorta true. Well my grandma brought grapes into america and we got held hack 2 hrs for that but seriously?
This is mean. In india everybody knows each oter and they get along. When travelling its wierd. Every is like brother and sister. Anna Akka.

fetzthechemist - September 7, 2013

I have seen people act very friendly with each other, but also very rudely. I do not know if it is class or age, but older well-to-do Indiansarelike their counterparts elsewhere. Demeaning and arrogant to other Indians, non-Indians, and the crew. Wealth seems to take away the ability to think of others as people.

66. Vikrant Ponkshe - September 7, 2013

My friend, you are an idiot and you need to see a good psychiatrist.

fetzthechemist - September 7, 2013

Since you podted without any details of why you say this, I will assume yours is the knee-jerk emotional response of an Indian feeling patriotic. But there ard many other now who have posted who see the same things. Indian newspapers and TV need to run articles on travel etiquette so that more people are aware. Since someone mentioned Bollywood, if some films included scene highlighting these things showing that there are both good and bad ways, maybe more Indians would notice.

Darin Kishore - November 10, 2013

What’s knee-jerk?

67. Proud Indian - September 10, 2013

I think you should not address the ill-mannered ones as ‘INDIAN’. Thats a wrong way to address… why, coz i face the same shit when I fly to London, where I find smelly lousy boozard and loud white skin westerners. I dont call them ‘BRITS’ for a simple reason that you can blame a country citizens overall coz of few of them… wrong post wrong way to address. If you were so concerned, why you dont fly with your AMERCIAN AIRLINE?? BTW, EK is 35% owned and managed by an INDIAN and 65% by an Arab!!! Next time fly in other airline… and check on nationalities before you take a flight … haha!

Fact Checker - December 16, 2013

I realize you want to make your case but please don’t fabricate stories. EK is a wholly owned subsidiary of Govt of Dubai.. it never was owned or even managed by anyone close to being an Indian. Please stop making up your own facts!!!! If anything it was the Pakistanis that helped EK get off the ground: quoting from Wikipedia (not just wiki but this is a known fact – I have grown up in Dubai and know its history and also my brother works in EK): During the mid-1980s, Gulf Air began to cut back its services to Dubai as it was concerned it was providing regional feeder flights for other carriers.[17] As a result Emirates was conceived in March 1985 with backing from Dubai’s royal family, and was required to operate independent of government subsidies, apart from US$10 million in start-up capital. In mid-1980s, Pakistan International Airlines played a large role in establishing the Emirates airline. First by leasing two of its airplanes – Airbus 300 and Boeing 737 – as well as providing technical and administrative assistance to the new carrier. Also Emirates leased a new Boeing 737–300 and an Airbus 300B4-200,[18] both from Pakistan International Airlines.[19] The Royal Family’s Dubai Royal Air Wing also provided the airline with two used Boeing 727–200 Adv.[20] The airline’s first flight, flight EK600, was Dubai–Karachi on 25 October 1985.[20][21]

68. Mike - September 10, 2013

Fetz,
Having been reading through the variety of comments on here I find it commendable what you’re writing and how you reply to some of the comments that have ultimately been of a derogatory nature.
I myself used to be a police officer in the U.K, I am as white as a milk bottle but I consider a Gujarati family to be my family for various reasons. The two sons I consider brothers and they’re as British as you can get apart from Skin colour so anybody whom says I’m racist simply cannot make that statement. I took a year out from the police to travel and I was cabin crew with Emirates – my girlfriend is still EK crew. I’m now a pilot and make no mistake I’m much happier now on those night turns to the Sub continent when that cockpit door locks behind me.
I understand there are vast amounts of Indian’s whom are uneducated and I made allowances for this when I was crew. That please and thank you, something which I don’t think can be overused will not come, I understood that language may be an issue. However I detest when said individuals who are educated, clearly have a reasonable standard of living and wealth are rude, obnoxious, arrogant and quite frankly detestable. The way cabin crew are treated is disgraceful on board EK. They are looked upon like slaves, and should a crew member reply or give a smart comment then a complaint is made and yes – complaint forms are asked for BEFORE the aircraft has left the ground IN CASE something should happen. I never took a comment which was derogatory or abusive myself and I happily told the customer. This got me in trouble with seniors and management alike but it has to be known that this behavior WILL and should NOT be tolerated regardless of colour, creed, race or ethnicity. Quite frankly if you’re English, Black, Purple or from mars – I will not accept being abused and now make the statement clear to my crews that any abuse will not be tolerated and reported to the cockpit crew so we can address the situation. I have left the front now on about a dozen occasions to address the pax myself.
I have had my girlfriend come home in tears because of the way pax have spoken to her, it makes my blood boil.
When it comes to crew treatment, Emirates does not care and this is evident if you read their ‘Conditions of Carriage’ versus other legacy carriers such as BA or Virgin.
On the basis of laws in the sky, its a variety of being in international airspace, where the aircraft is registered, the owner of aircraft and where the conditions of carriage is based from if it varies to ownership of the aircraft (such as lease).
Phusuke made this comment “And besides it is the duty of the crew to account for cultural differences such as this”
How dare you sir – being abused? Part of their duty? Being addressed in derogatory manner? Part of their duty? Perhaps you should spend 6 months in the shoes of the cabin crew who might have been given 3 BOM turnarounds leaving at 2am getting them back to Dubai at 1pm. Average shift for crew on this sector (10pm wake up, midnight report to HQ, 2am departure. 3-3.5 hour flight plus 1-1.5 hours on ground during turnaround, deplaning and then another 30 mins post flight upon arrival) only to be done again the same night. Oh the rest period will allow that yes. So before anyone starts slagging crew off – think about this might be the 3rd of 4th night in a row for them.
For the comment of Fetz making mention to Gold. If he’s traveling Y/C then it will take a lot of flights to become Plat. Over a 3 yr period a dozen trips will not qualify him for Plat. I am going to mention I am though because I travel with my other half on my days off on full fare tickets because I can and will make sure that if anyone treats her badly I’ll ensure I treat them with the same respect they have given her.
Its a genuine thread here and Fetz makes a valid argument. Travel etiquette needs to return to the heyday of flying when people flew in suits, treated the crew with the respect they deserve and looked at them like they are – qualified paramedics in the sky who look after your SAFETY first and foremost then your bloody meals. You didnt get chicken on your flight and the world has ended – if my job/life was that easy boy I’m not quite sure what I’d do with the rest of my time.
Proud Indian – where did you get your stats for (35% Indian owned??)
I wont stick up for loud mouthed Brits, I’ve dealt with enough of them in my time in the police. I’ve had the pleasure of them being sick on me, spitting in my face etc. So I’m well aware, but for the most part they are mildly mannered and say please and thank you…so what do you call those people then?
Check on nationalities? What do you propose – he asks for the APIS of everyone listed/booked on that flight? Never going to happen. And sorry what does the word ‘Boozard’ mean? I’ve just checked – the urban dictionary explains a person who habitually gets drunk. Thats not Oxford though is it 😉 Whilst I see your point, when its a majority versus a minority I believe most are well in their own rights to define them from country of origin.
As someone stated – we have far too many “Brits” whom display the passport proudly but when you question them you are racist because they are not British but from another country altogether.

Roy - September 22, 2013

Life is never fair and I agree but you see living in a World where one hopes to be treated respectfully nicely and not abused is lovely and we all wish that
Britain is fantastic and has some wonderful things , but assumption you are above 30 then even you know things have changed
The UK I grew up in was so beautiful so nice and its only been 15-20 years now and the rules, life have changed dramatically .
My local Bobby was a great guy , The Det Inspector I met in central London co-ordinating was intelligent fair and a great guy . Since then things have changed ……on a lighter side I can see why Simon Pegg made Hot Fuzz
Being an Ex Copper you know as I do how amazing the Northern Ireland Police force is was , how brave intelligent as were the Met , and there are still a few good men around , just finding them is harder.
Cabin crew well I always treat with respect and truthfully it gets reciprocated in about 10% of cases ..and after reading this delightful forum I am getting a better idea why, I respect the fact everyone has a hard job , everyone has a family and everyone is just trying to live happily but I have the same things and wishes but sadly due to rude obnoxious arrogant impolite other people who cabin crew rarely form what I see do what they want and I see what happens to the inverse of those people .

I am glad maybe you were one of the open minded crew and I suppose being an ex copper opens your mind , but you not the norm
I have travelled EK and many airlines and I assure you its not all mai tai and love and champagne and respect etc etc and funny thing about life is those who shout loudest , rudest , most obnoxious generally get what they want …this is reality no matter which way you look and how much we all want Shangri La , Valhalla and the ELysean Fields to be outside our doorstep

Anyhow racism is convenient word used now a days , its a very emotional and very painful word and unless you go through it , and you may have , no one can tell you how it really feels to be judged on colour and stereotypical thinking

As for wanting chicken and not wanting Safety etc etc should you find someone in this position , sometimes being frank and honest gets results” ie Sir/Madam it is more important for airline to make your goodself and your family have an extremely safe and pleasant trip , and I will be delighted to bring you your chicken and if it has run out I am sorry on behalf of the airline etc etc ”
Anyhow I wish I had the option to be a pilot , but sadly I hear need 20 20 vision , causes problems but hope things are better for you and your other half in the future

Darin Kishore - November 10, 2013

Loooooonnnnngggg

69. Sri - September 18, 2013

These thoughts are racist and reflect lack of understanding of how different Asian cultures are. Indian kids may laugh and play when they are little but behave like adults when they are older. Western kids may be trained to behave better when younger but continue o behave like kids even at your age. If the plane is full of Indians there will obviously be conversation. Same if the plane is full of Germans, or westerners etc. bumping and stamping is very common in crowded planes. If US had a population like India and few resources and land likewise it would be chaotic here because Indians are very tolerant people the country runs like how it’s runninging today. Privacy, sophisticated behavior etc are synonyms for your intolerance and anti social behavior and hatred to embrace different cultures and behavior.

fetzthechemist - September 18, 2013

It boggles me that when someone drops a suitcase on my head and does not apologize, if I am upset it is racist. If kids tun around and interfere with the crew feedinv people, that is acceptable. Do Indians having dinner let their kids run around and keep the servants from serving dinner? Conversation is one thing, but Indian men almost yell during the sleep period. India must be a chaotic hellhole.

imindian - July 8, 2015

I’m Indian. I’m proud of my roots. I strongly believe in all values that my culture has to offer to mankind. Having said that, this culture is in present day a wishful thinking and a facade. There is extreme rudeness in the behavior of people of my country. I have lived in the US (with constant touch with my Indian roots) for 2 decades. People are patriotic, disciplined, respectful and value each others time and space. Whenever I travel to India we too experience horror in the flight. Loud talking, occupying other peoples space w/o permission. Being too nosy. Well this is all nothing compared to the rudeness u get when u land in India. Adults talking very rudely to my kids, condescending attitude, showing off their wealth and constantly blaming the western upbringing of my kids while approving of misogynistic attitudes. I know this is not the Indian culture I’m proud of. Watch bollywood movies and u will know what ‘objectifying of women’ mean. We) somebody brought up history in their comment. I’d say look at our Indian values of our past and compare to what’s in the present. It is shameful. I got an education inIndia and in the US. While I learnt that pointless toiling will sometimes con in handy and is necessary in life, I learned only in the US. I only resent the fact that my ethnic origin and appearance puts me and my family in the same bucket as the (unruly) others from India.
Although regarding smell, I have to disagree because I work with children and adults. Most kids of other ethnic origin take a shower or bath only once a week and have bad breath. While most Indians take a shower twice a day. I think it depends on individuals.

70. Anonymous - September 22, 2013

Do you have an email address, I have had a series of experiences as you’ve described and I need some input.

71. 3Ballz - September 24, 2013

I’m an indian born and raised overseas. So were my parents.

And you are right about these Indian Indians.
They suck to the core. If there is an indian rat kid sitting behind you on a plane, you are in deep shit. Don’t bother getting any sleep! Tell their parents to control their little brat, they will just ignore you or even argue with you. They are simply shameless rats.

fetzthechemist - September 24, 2013

Although the Indians think I am as harsh in my assessment as you are, I do not think them to be shameless rats. Clueless or self-centered, many are.

72. vaneet - September 28, 2013

I have read many posts. Life is NOT about following the rules you are designing. Life is free. You love your cats and dogs and eat animals around openly. What would you say about that ? Accept people way they are and STOP making them way you are. Whole world cannot and should NOT become western polite type. Life evolves in its time. There is history and karma for everything. enjoy the DIFFERENCE and stop stereotyping. You are educated and you cannot tolerate and accept because you have seen life from material perspective only. Before knowing any of the indians or pakistanis or asians or arabs or europeans, you cannot and should NOT make any opinion, that is utter ignorance. Manners are just outer reflection. enjoy the difference of opinions and ways and because of this diversity and difference, addition happens in universe. why does whole world need to have manners that western society have ? Are you trying to tell us that your way of life lead to peace and harmony and no WAR. check your history before teaching us. You do meditation, yoga and etc for inner peace and you cannot tolerate people talking, children playing and different behaviors. yes, people are acting selfish . give me a part of world where people are not selfish. there are different ways of each society and grow up and accept each other. I was born in INDIA and i am a global citizen and i will defend all from such ignorant posts. Your post do not create any harmony.

fetzthechemist - September 28, 2013

The advice is to not be judgmental. OK, if I do and act just as these others do, will they tolerate me sitting in their assigned seat if I prefer it over mi8ne? I will not look out for people in the aisle and bump into them without regard – and since I am much taller and heavier than most of these smallish Indians, too bad. No apology applies to the person I knock ut of my way because I want to get somewhere. If a child runs down the aisle, too bad if I am going in the opposite direction. The child will be pushed aside or knocked down because he or she is in my way. Indian rules, Indian behaviours will apply. Too bad for those Indians who are not able to deal with me living their way. Screw their inability to deal with me because it is my airplane, just like it is theirs.

Roy - September 28, 2013

I can see you are still riled against Indians and how bad they are and how they act etc etc etc
You know I am not the biggest fan of rudeness , ill manners even if it is Wangkees in London ChinaTown , but life and things change you know
I gather clulessness self centred , I honestly do not believe it is just an Indian trait , I think this is a universal trait -just different cultures express it differently
Lets be honest here–. I have seen the expectance of so many lets say non Indians –looking for a Yes Sir , Whatever you want Sir , 3 bags full Sir ,head nod left right ….yes and when its not there things go awry , or worse still see what happens when the shoe is on the other foot or God forbid the Indian has a voice

And you should see what happens when one speaks English properly , most can not handle it trust me, and you get sly remarks , sly innuendos , dumb responses and one really wants to say something but you know as well as I do We are all the followers of Gandhi –you know hit me here hit me there abuse me here abuse me there and we will sit and discuss —-Hmm call it a 1000 years of being pushed down and abused and not given a voice starting from the Muhammed Bin Kasim invasion to the sultanates , the mughals and then the British and now by present day creatures known as Congress –so you see what happens when one does not adopt the stereotype

And plus you know as well as I do how rich and cultured places like Shanghai and Hyderabad was around the turn of the century , and lets not forget the Ottoman empire. Each had their plus and minus’
Imagine what they thought of people who travelled in their company who lets say were not as cultured , for lack of a better phrase , as they were .
Its all human nature so I understand

Don’t worry its not all racist talk ..of Indians/Whites etc even the 13-15% minority population hark on about what they had when somehow they ruled over the majority of what is known as present day India and they go on about discrimination and how they are treated badly —-personally I think it is because people remember yesteryears and a bygone era of a majority subservient population ….Human nature you see or shall I be more specific
Airlines , Flights look everyone can be a piece of work , you have come across some who did not agree with you , After all when you have a population of 1 in 5 of the World ok 1/6 nearly chances are you will meet them , chances are you will have to adapt —-you may not like it , you may despise it and you may feel your way is best —but in reality I am sure everyone feels this way and here lies the conundrum
I could go on but somehow I am not sure how that will help , It appears to me that a lot of minds are made up , a lot are unwilling to change and a lot maybe are just wanting to pull a johnson who knows

Where as I agree one needs to control their kids and one needs to know decorum and understanding I do not believe it is a pure Indian trait or for that manner a majority Indian issue , even if I have to agree trying to work in India is enlightening

Anyhow — Karma is a concept which invariably comes true , and the Wheel was a great invention , What comes round goes round or as it is said Be nice while you are no the way to the top as you will one day fall and we all want to meet nice people

73. ecliptical - September 28, 2013

I have read many posts. Life is NOT about following the rules you are designing. Life is free. You love your cats and dogs and eat animals around openly. What would you say about that ? Accept people way they are and STOP making them way you are. Whole world cannot and should NOT become western polite type. Life evolves in its time. There is history and karma for everything. enjoy the DIFFERENCE and stop stereotyping. You are educated and you cannot tolerate and accept because you have seen life from material perspective only. Before knowing any of the indians or pakistanis or asians or arabs or europeans, you cannot and should NOT make any opinion, that is utter ignorance. Manners are just outer reflection. enjoy the difference of opinions and ways and because of this diversity and difference, addition happens in universe. why does whole world need to have manners that western society have ? Are you trying to tell us that your way of life lead to peace and harmony and no WAR. check your history before teaching us. You do meditation, yoga and etc for inner peace and you cannot tolerate people talking, children playing and different behaviors. yes, people are acting selfish . give me a part of world where people are not selfish. there are different ways of each society and grow up and accept each other. I was born in INDIA and i am a global citizen and i will defend all from such ignorant posts. Your post do not create any harmony.

74. graham smith - October 1, 2013

I live in the UAE and the indian nation has to be one of the worst In the world! as mentioned about personal space…. if you shout at them or get angry they understand what they are doing wrong and back away. also if you tell them that they stink they will make a plan to get out of your area, there is no use just sitting there not saying anything! get angry smack them too. They do not have any rites… its only the airline that protect them from any violence. but once you on land feel free to take them out. INDIANS SO MESSSSED UP!!!

75. sri - October 5, 2013

Even I flew this sector dozon times. I didn’t find any of these. May be I didn’t notice a few instances which might have really happend. But a racist mind sees them amplified. Even I keep hearing from fellow Indians about americans, chinese on things like the food they eat, the cloths they wear, the way they smell etc. If you don’t have respect for others culture, their way of living this is what happens. You attribute one bad or even a different behavior to entire race as your mind sees them amplified.

76. XYZ - October 14, 2013

Why do you still fly Emirates if you have so many issues with Indians?
Fly an Europen Airlines, have a stopover in Germany and fly to Dubai.
I will be waiting for a blog with the heading ‘ A plane full of Germans behaiving Badly.’

Don’t get me wrong, I do understand a lot of things that you have pointed out. Being an Indian, I do pretty much get sick of the overbearing yelling on a 16 hour flight.
But at the same time, this is not the trait that only Indian’s possess.

Coming to the smell of the food, Mr, when they serve Fish on the plane (which is definitely not cooked in ‘Hindu’ style) it stinks up the whole damn plane.
Don’t you dare make a comment on the food people eat.
It’s food at the end of the day, all type of food has a smell to it which maybe unpleasant to a person of another cultural background.
For example, I hate the smell of Chinese food but I ADJUST.
Maybe adjusting is something that is not inculcated in foreign culture.
Coming to the Indian children who scream and ruin your flight. I just flew EK 226 last Friday and I had an American mother next to me with her two unruly children. From the moment I sat on my seat until the cabin crew passed around the toys, they were screaming and jumping on their seats-literally. And the mother did nothing. But I didn’t give a rats ass, because THAT is how kids should be, not uprtigth and drinking tea at a tea party.
I am sorry to the cabin crew who get abused by Indians and other passengers. Again, it’s not a trait that Indian’s possess, it’s a trait that an person with a bad nature possesses.

I am an Indian teen age girl who wants to work in the field of International Relations and make cultural ties between countries stronger.
Reading this blog makes me realise that the perception of Indians all over the world is so messed up only because of a few Indians who behave rudely and few foreigners who generalise and screw up the entire picture.

India is beautiful country and Indians(the right ones) are beautiful people and very fun to be with.

You need to understand people better and adjust to all kinds of people all around the world.
I hope you will 🙂

fetzthechemist - October 14, 2013

I fly Emirates because it is the only direct flight to Dubai. I go there often and an extra 3,4,5,6 hours each way just to avoid rude people is too much time. Germans are very loud and among Europeans they can be the rudest. You are correct that only some Indians behave badly, but I was pointing out that although there are such people on any flight to anywhere from anywhere else and having passengers of many nationalities, these flights full of Indians have a higher proportion.

I was not objecting to babies or children crying or yelling. That is uncomfortable or annoying, but expected. It is the children, many of an age where they could be told not to, who run wildly up and down the aisle. This is beyond annoying. It is disruptive of the crew trying to do their jobs. It is not safe for the kids or someone they might run into.

Being confined for 16 hours with most people of not fun. But when the people make the time more unpleasant, then it bothers me. I do not go out of my way to make their time more uncomfortable.

77. Roy - October 15, 2013

XYZ I concur and I have to agree with most of what you say , Fetz he/she pointed something out and I am not convinced in a malicious way and you can see that as time goes one the posts aroma changes and is more clear , but it is intriguing the discussion that is being had
Good luck in your career and as a young teenage girl whereas I like aggression and I am all for women having a voice and say , International relations are sadly not built on truth honesty cultural acceptance and fairness . By all means preach this but as you grow up , its the return on investment that will build relationships -sad but true eg Ottoman/Brits vs the House of Hasburgs , NATO , Okinawa vs USA , The South China Sea and SE Asia “agreements/discussions ” with China , Tibet/India China discussions , Europe vs Russia ( gas fields ) hey China vs ROW –but to understand this you need to know about Middle Kingdom–this I am sure you are well read and will be as you progress on your desires . Dont forget to be healthy sports diet exercise etc
You are correct we are a Beautiful country , lots of qualities and I just wish we showed it more often …if you can vote then vote for the majority of India
Perception of India is what the media portrays and sadly what is easy to do . It is always at the expense at making India look not as beautiful as She is , I hope you youngsters can change things , as sadly NRI are not given that option unless one is super rich or connected and even then you can get penalized if you are from the majority religion and worse still as Arakshan showed it best –no matter how good you are only certain groups are given reservation quota –go figure . As for the argument of years of oppression and therefore reservation is needed –well if you read history and not the school curriculum that is doctored since early 1980 for the appeasement of you know who , then you will see who really cared and who did not , but as Arakshan showed when AB responded in the best fashion in the interview he still got penalized ..this is reality
Keep up this spirit – its a great quality

78. Preetha - October 22, 2013

I am an Indian and I am not offended by what I read here. But I have seen lots of Americans in this country misbehaving too. But only very very few of them travel in a long distance flight or even in a short distance flight for you to sit and watch their behavior frequently. Obviously a good percentage of the travelers from SFO are Indians. So there is a higher probability that you notice them and their mistakes while you don’t get a chance to sit and look the people in your own country. I am not being harsh. My general opinion is- there are good and bad people everywhere in this world and the momentary misbehavior of a person doesn’t make him/her a bad person either.

For example my kid goes to a public school here in US and there are kids from all different countries. And among all the kids in his class, I have noticed only one American kid just becoz he behaves so bad! Every kid put their backpack on their rack when they enter in the classroom while this kid, just throw it so harsh into the cubby.I saw his mom standing just behind him and never say him not to do it. And one day he put a toilet tissue in my kid’s backpack. I have never send a single complaint to his teacher as I understand that it is not the problem with just the kid. That is how he is raised up. And I know Indian people do the same too.

fetzthechemist - October 22, 2013

You are correct about American kids. Today’s parent, those under 40, are raising a generation of spoiled and self-centered brats. They are not taught any manners, never scolded for anything, and are coddled. They are all the golden child. None is not perfect and brilliant. Schools now only give high marks, others are thought to be detrimental to a child’s self-image and self-confidence.

The behaviours I see on the flights covers many age groups and both sexes. Yes, there are many courteous Indians, but a proportion are not. This proportion is higher than for most nationalities (those from mainland China, Germany, Russia, Serbia are close in their boorishness). I think with Indians some of this is ignorance, the people never travel and are only used to their own ways. Others do this through a cultural acceptance that might be fine within India, but outside of there is not the normal way of doing things. My flights are not within India. They are to and from San Francisco and Dubai. The norms for those 2 cities do not accept this bad behavior.

79. Dont Bluff - October 23, 2013

East or West India is the best.

80. hairynavel - October 24, 2013

In all these journeys, there was only one “good” sheep. Any guess who that was ?

81. Fucking South Asian Trash - October 24, 2013

Indians have an IQ of around 82 , it’s alot lower than the more civilized people.

82. Fucking South Asian Trash - October 24, 2013

Like I always say: “the DARKER THEY ARE , THE WORSER THEY ARE!”

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL.

fetzthechemist - October 24, 2013

I do not edit, censor, or filter any comments posted here. But yours are both ignorant and racist. I include them, but only to show that stupidity is not limited to one side or the other on this.

83. Arijit - October 29, 2013

Interesting. But there is a bias here. I must say. I am Indian. Born and raised in India. Educated in India. Have been travelling for the last 25 years across the world and yes I am irritated by fellow passengers who are loud, selfish, dont respect fellow passengers space, drink too much, treat the cabin crew like trash….but have not been able to define these passengers as “Hindu” Indian or “stinky” or “dirty” or “smelly” Indians only….maybe you as a well travelled person should try and understand what that the smelly, dirty person sitting next to you has had to endure to be able to just get a chance to fly and do something with his life. I have been to over 65 countries in the world in my line of work, but while I get irritated sometimes while flying…I dont think it makes sense to kind of make statements or attach a particular brand of shame towards the whole country. I remember in 2009, I was visiting Britain. The Immigration officer demanded to know how much money I was carrying. At that time I had around GBP 2000 in cash and of course my cards. I was staying at the Dorchester (company provided). He commented whether I had enough to stay there…and then he took offense when I informed him that I was merely planning to stay at the Dorchester and not planning to buy the hotel…..there again…does it make every Anglo Saxon British a racist? No it does not. Nor does it make every French man a racist when Mr. Mirhard (French Visa Consul in Delhi) refused me a Schengen visa because I could not pronounce correctly the name of the street where I would be staying in Paris…I have in the course of my travel encountered wildly contrasting people, cabin crew…but can I paint the actions of the few with a broad brush…that would not be cricket. Sorry but I felt the need to have my say. Best. Arijit

fetzthechemistfetzthechemist - October 29, 2013

This blog have wandered through quite a few areas with numerous posters. I must reiterate that I do not edit or censor any post, even if I disagree with it or find it objectionable. With that point, I have never complained about odours of passengers. That is both cultural biases and each individual often has little control of this biologically especially during a long flight. Personally, I find some Europeans as unpleasant on this. (I had an officemate in grad school who was from Switzerland and rarely bathed. He just put on more cologne. In a small poorly-ventilated basement office, that was very bad each day.)

I am not saying all Indians are rude or inconsiderate nor the only nationality with some members who are. I have said over and over is that the proportion of Indians seems to be much higher than any others that I have experienced in my travels. People point out the new wealth of many otherwise untraveled, uncultured, unaware Indians – those who have not been outside of their own small cities and towns, let alone outside of India. I understand that. But if some Indians recognize this, then why haven’t there been TV programmes, articles in newspapers and magazines explaining this to those people, exposing them to the idea that other travelers might not be pleased with certain behaviours?

Roy - October 29, 2013

Arjit welcome to the life of an NRI, we get that on a daily basis abroad , at least you know in India you will be Indian , here we are treated as foreigners as in India and sadly what Fetz has commented on and you have alluded to is correct. I think as educated Indians we generally handle “ignorance ” far more intelligently and elegantly then a lot of nations ( but then I may now be criticised for patting ourselves on the back ?!) . Sadly it is rarely reciprocated , and worse still judgements are made on sight with little knowledge and appreciation of the reasons or for that matter the truth
And I have to agree its not cricket but then again cricket is not a gentleman’s sport anymore ..e.g Broad not walking –citing what the umpire does not see does not matter –need I elaborate …..

fetzthechemistfetzthechemist - October 29, 2013

Yes, being a non-resident must be difficult. The expectations are based on stereotyping of the worst “offenders”. Americans of two or three generations ago experienced the same thing – the “Ugly American” traveler. Even today, many people are that way if they are older or have not travelled much. I even see it within the US. Ignorance is still widespread, even with the Internet. I know it will lessen with time because people communicate and travel more. But for Indians, it is a transition just beginning. The nation has so many people and many still live lives closer to the 19th or 20th centuries than to today.

84. Max - November 1, 2013

I work in Dubai in a bank, in my department, there is one British guy, ten Indians and I am the only arab.
Ten Indians stabbing the British in his back all the time, and trying to kick me out of bank, to have another Indian instead of me.. I’ve never dealt or seen a worse nation than this.. They are dirty from inside out; The worse part is that there are 1.2B of them on this small planet… And they are spreading everywhere like cancer.

fetzthechemist - November 1, 2013

I would not say that all Indians are terrible people. They do have a clannishness that has them prefer other Indians, but so does every other nationality. They do have a dog-eat-dog attitude, because India is so poor – even now the new wealth barely touches a fraction of its 1.2 people and does not affect most even by one rupee. This can lead to decisions in the gray where it seems more black than white (bad than good). The competitiveness leads to an attitude that if things are not explicit by law or rule, then they are only broken when someone is caught. I guess this extends into my experiences on planes, in that they might thing “I can do whatever I want until someone tells me otherwise”. In the US, many Indians assimilate some, so that Indian-Americans are quite different. Thus, they are not a cancer here – maybe in the UAE and other nations where they are not allowed to blend in it would be different. But I see Indian families in Oman or Dubai who have ben there for centuries and are still treated as lesser people, as foreigners. I do not like that, either.

PKS Nathan - November 5, 2013

This is true hate campaign, deep and intense racial hate

fetzthechemist - November 5, 2013

That I include every opinion, whether I agree with the statements or their assumptions, does not make this a racist hate thread. It make it a reflection of the world and the Internet. I prefer the free discourse among people over censoring that might give a tone that is not a reflection of people’s attitudes from any perspective. Yes, some are racist, but parallels of India is a great country because it is mine and therefore anything done by an Indian must be acceptable is also racist. Indians are diverse and this blog points out that some are outside of India and behaving like it is their own home or town in India. Traveling outside of a country, especially between 2 other nations, should be a clue that this situation is different.

85. rhodesianrider - November 3, 2013

What a fantastic thread , myself an Indian from Southerin Africa now living in the US.
Was recently on a flight from DFW to DXB onwards to MAA, what a terrible terrible terrible journey.

There are 2 classes of people, the ones from the US and the ones traveling only traveling from DXB to wherever in India!
To MAA there was this man troubling flight attendants for more booze, i mean the guy wanted bottles and bottles of the stuff to give his friends. This dude went on until another cabin crew (a massive Indian dude stepped in and stopped the nonsense)

Tbh these people are mostly uneducated and labor class, sorry but I’ve seen some blue collar behavior in Texas, though certainly not as bad still pretty nasty.

Smells – Absolutely disgusting, as it is we eat all sorts of curries, and on top of that not using deo after all that sweating from that connecting flight!! Eww.

The flight attendants to be honest are too good for these people, so much so that you cringe on seeing what they go through.

The author does generalize Hindu Indians and somehow brings the caste system in, but the sad irony is that most of the higher caste Indians will give you the time of day, the politeness and space theyve come to cherish and enjoy in the West.Its the lower castes with the recent arrival of money sans class that give you the headaches.

Anyways I like solutions so here are mine:
Staff every flight to South Asia with Indians, meet arrogance with arrogance! At the least make it 65% Indian.
Yes I agree with some of the others, step up and stand up for your seat, your comfort, make a scene , in front of that dudes family.
Guess what he’s going to tell someone who’ll tell someone and then finally someone will up’n tell him that kids running up and down ain’t cool perhaps even add the uncertainty of injury.
The smell – straight up – YOU STINK! Hah the irony, I got a few letters at work for using TOO MUCH cologne – Now when they see me they run , not from the smell but from the smell of Polo and Maambo ! LOL
But back to the statement, just tell them YOU SMELL. See what happens, he’s going to cry and curse and blah blah blah but he’ll get the message, especially since it’s laden with humiliation. He’ll never forget.

Finally sorry man, you went through a rough one, can’t apologize a billion times, but get that American toughness and give it back.
Take back your seats, one seat at a time.

86. rhodesianrider - November 4, 2013

…and one more thing, for the sake of clairvoyance, I trust you have NEVER travelled on a Greyhound out of Philly – try that , I would love to read your blog on your experiences with your fellow Americans.
Of course if you have the guts to be honest i.e like you have been about Indians.

fetzthechemist - November 4, 2013

My experiences on Greyhound buses was back in my college days and rather uneventful. More recently I have ridden Amtrak trains and found them to be quite pleasant, the people included. I was at a conference on 9/11 and stranded in Ohio when the airports were shutdown. So I rode the rails from Ohio to California, and made a few friends. So a separate blog post on that might be boring. Buses and trains vary among their passenger makeup. I think planes do to som degree, thus the observations about Indians are now an on-going pattern of over two dozen roundtrips.

87. Turtledge - November 4, 2013

I must confess that nothing that Indians do surprises me. In recent months I came across a book titled Games Indians Play by Prof V Raghunathan and it is a wonderful read.

Based on Game Theory, the author offers many examples. His Ted talk on Games Indians Play (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kld-H9Hei5c) is well worth viewing.

Sadly I agree with Raghunathan that Indians are privately smart and publicly dumb!

88. Gman - November 5, 2013

Mr. fetzthechemist,

I am an Indian too, I fully understand where you are coming from and yes I do agree that we all should be considerate towards other people at all times for courtesy sake.

Indian culture is rich, respectful and very polite but over the period of thousands of years a lot of things have changed in India, there are problems within our country and we all are working towards to fix them. It is hard to say how long it is going to be before we nail it down or may be these problems could never be eliminated.

The fact is that India is a very over populated country at present stage of time and plus scarcity of recourses has caused a lot of human behavior changes.

In India 50% of people lives below poverty line which means no proper food, water and clothing and rest 50% have meet their basic needs but pushing their way up to the top of 50%.

Western has also grown in their population as well but they have captured more land area such as Australia, New Zealand, US, Canada and even Brazil. But Indian have never expended their territory and thus facing the problem of scarcity.

Your point is correct Indians are more self centered but wouldn’t you be if you have no government support and you have been left on your own with no help and guidance since birth from government (No Schooling, hospital and center link etc), don’t take it offensive as I am not saying you are using government support to meet your basic needs.

Indians have learned survival of the fittest techniques which works in India, I believe you know living in India is much more difficult than living in any western country reason being that there are more people than resources.

The universal law is survival of the fittest, if you were born in India your views would have been different, or if you have to survive in these conditions.

Now you will think how does this relates to your airplane experience?

The airplane incidence is just a reflection of how things work in India and the habits of Indians which have been change due to above given reasons.

Now you might think then who is to blame or Fix it?

It is up to an Individual to blame or take charge to fix the problem. As an Individual I never play blaming game as it does not takes you far therefore I act on it and there a lot of Indians who like to present India as a better country. That is the reason why I am spending and other Indians are spending so much time to develop a proper understanding of our country.

I would also like to say, Indians have their own perceptions about foreigners, the same way you have about Indians from your own experience but that does not make one perception right over the other.

Sorry or please make a lot of sense if you mean them, otherwise they are just words.

Dropping a bag could not be as worse as nuking a country or wiping an entire race of because they causing someone inconvenience. There are plenty of examples of destruction caused in the name of civilization. If you cant be civilized then you are not a human basically.

The thinks such as inconvenience are big issue for you but our bigger issue is to provide basic things to our family at this point of time and get out of these crises.

I live in a western country and I respect the country I live in but I never try to change anyone because it is causing me inconvenience.

So when you travel anywhere in the world always remember you are not in your home country and things will be different and you are the one to adjust. Be prepared to accept them as you would not like people coming to your country and complaining about the system and then asking you to change them.

fetzthechemist - November 5, 2013

“So when you travel anywhere in the world always remember you are not in your home country and things will be different and you are the one to adjust.” Ah, On a plane flying over the US, Canada, the Arctic Ocean, Russia, Iran, the Persian/ Arabian Gulf, and the UAE, I am to defer to someone else, even though they are from Indian? The planes fly to or from my nation, never near India, and it must be an Indian zone. Quite solid logic there, especially for the three hours over the US. In that time, they are in my country, not in India. Let them take your advice! If this were a flight to or from India, I would expect differences. If it were within India, I would expect Indian customs and behaviours to prevail, for me or any other flier.

Why do the defenders of this always divert the issue, bring up national issues like nuclear weapons – which Indian has, also. I never said Indians ought to behave differently because they have troubles in Kashimir or dozens of other regions in their nation. That is irrelevant.

“Sorry or please make a lot of sense if you mean them, otherwise they are just words.” Yes, and it is obvious that India is a very impolite nation to anyone who is not Indian. But that must not be a racist attitude for them, either. Courtesy is a respect for other people, regardless of the circumstances or their characteristics. Having read much literature of the British Raj period, it is mystifying why Indians have adopted an identical stance towards outsiders as the British had for them – poor savage, ignorant heathen wogs, a myopia that only saw people as Britishers. The currents of history create great ironies.

89. Kumar - November 9, 2013

Totally agree with you.

Indians do not have manners and ettiquete. Unfortunately its not taught in our country.

All we can say we are very proud of our culture but mate its all on the surface.

Indians do not know how to behave in a public place. they have no idea about personal space.

I believe out of the 1.4 billion indians living in India 1.2 needs to be taught manners and ettiquete.That is a hard task.

BTW I am an Indian .

90. Rav - November 9, 2013

Had my share of similar experiences with this unruly and ignorant bunch. Most recently was on a flight from Amsterdam to Mumbai for a connecting flight with my wife (will never in my life I’ll take a connecting flight from Mumbai if my life depended on it, but that’s a different story). Our seats were taken by a large group of very loud mouth Indians and refused to give up since they wanted to sit together. Some even pointed out towards other empty seats (because people were still boarding) for us to occupy. When we complained to the flight crew they tried to reason with the horde but had to give up. We felt sorry for the flight crew as they tried to keep their cool while being already stressed out after flying from US. I will not go into repeating what is already established about being stuck in a 7 hour flight with Indians. After the holiday in Maldives and then few days in Sri Lanka flew from Colombo to Amsterdam which was a totally different experience. The Sri Lankan couple sitting in front of us even excused before reclining their seats. It’s not the best of comparisons but noteworthy none the less.

91. Darin Kishore - November 10, 2013

Meh…

92. Michael - November 14, 2013

I travel to India often for work (In India as we speak) and I have to say that Indian’s are by far the sweetest, kindest, warmest most genuine people I have every encountered….

However, It used to baffle me that when I went out with my indian colleagues they would never greet the security guards, porters, doormen, parking attendants etc. They wouldn’t say thank you or even look them in the eye.

As I always love talking to people from all walks of life and understanding more about peoples culture I decided to ask why?….

The response I got made so much sense… Indian’s basically don’t believe in ‘False’ niceties. In the UK we may say ‘please’, ‘thank you’ and ‘I’m Sorry’ but thats where it stops. If a stranger talks to you we assume they are a ‘weird-o’ and we get all uncomfortable like ‘what does this person want from me?'(I find myself doing it too!)…..Its just our programming. Its meaningless.

Where in India, if you meet someone on the street, go to someones house, shop or place of business business you will be treated as if you are a member of the family, if not better!

I’m often a ‘stranger in a strange land’ and often feel isolated and alone… but India is the one place in the world I feel genuine warmth from the people. Its Genuine and not protocol and I prefer it like that.

As a Brit, we may ‘behave’ ourselves on the Plane but when we get to our destination we tend to treat it as if its an extension of a friday night down the boozer! I have been so embarrassed at our own behaviour when on holidaying in tourist areas like Spain, Egypt, Amsterdam, Cancun etc. Fights, flashing, puking on streets and complete disrespect for local cultures and customs. You don’t see tourists on the Streets of London trashing up the place!

Every culture is different. The great part about life is celebrating and tolerating our differences. I even felt compelled once to write to Emirates after a flight from Dubai to Mumbai. Not because of the passengers but I found a handful of the staff were racially profiling the Indian passengers. No smiles for my Indian seat mate but plenty for me. I felt so uncomfortable the entire flight.

On the flight back from Mumbai to Dubai I was sitting at the back near the Galley and this British Stewardess was literally shouting to her colleague (assuming most people could not speak English) about her entire sexual history (warts and all!). It was so unprofessional I almost felt sorry for her!

The ironic thing was that girl she was talking turned out to be a 29 year old Indian stewardess who was admitted she was still a virgin who was saving herself for her future husband…. My heart melted.

…I wonder if there is a blog with Indian’s complaining about how ‘dirty, cheap and slutty’ my fellow compatriots are!

Until they day comes in another 500 years when we all look, talk and act the same lets all focus on the positive aspects of one anthers culture!

fetzthechemist - November 14, 2013

At the recommendation of a friend from high school days, who does not know this blog exists, I am reading A Suitable Boy by Vikram Seth. Although dated in the India of post-independence, it goes into family, extended family, business attitudes, attitudes of social and economic status. It is very interesting. The detail-oriented aspects of Indian society do overweigh those bigger picture ones. I think, thus, creating the situations I run across. I am less important, out of focus, even non-existent in those contexts.

Satish - November 20, 2013

yeah fetz it all sums up, where in every other passage you have to remind people mostly indians, of what your ( or the blog’s)point is. Even while doing that, people say rude things as ” yes we are like that, you have to put up with us as is , and they say ,yes we do have our problems, but we are proud indians. They even go to the extent of saying you are jealous of indians because they are far superior. so you must have had an idea what kind you are dealing with.Im an indian, never been on a plane. But can relate to the torment in an enclosed space. Just imagine living it for 34 years.

93. sukanya - November 15, 2013

thats because it happens everyday in india. people always have to struggle and compete to get things which they know are already their own. right from our childhood we are taught to compete and grab the thing or just stand by and do nothing and regret later on. there is always a competition whether be it on bus, train, at home among the siblings even if there are only two of them. its everywhere. and the worst thing i know is that this competition is turning people to machines without feelings. nd further feelings for whom? bcuz people are unable to recognize which is real and what is false! i know there is nothing to be proud of in being an indian with the rise of crime rate in every square cm in this country. and ofcourse the superiority complex of indians. the case is different in northeast india though. i know too long speech!

94. Rahul - November 23, 2013

Compared to all other similar posts, I see the discussions here are more sane, thoughtful as well as thought provoking.

Yes, I also always wondered why people keep standing for those extra minutes, as they most probably will not save the time, anyway having to wait for their baggage to arrive in the carousal.

However Phukuse and few others also brought out the differences in the concept of personal space (which varies in different countries/culture). I was touched by Michael’s post and can connect well. In India, friends might even get angry/hurt if you say sorry… in Hindi, “Arey dost ko sorry bolta hain!” meaning “what! you are saying sorry to a friend” – you don’t need to say sorry, i am your friend, i understand you.

Even it does not come to me naturally to sprinkle my words with please, thank you, excuse me, sorry; being exposed to different parts of world I have adapted. BTW, Fetz, I would definitely say sorry if I have bumped that bag onto you, even otherwise.

By the way, while on the airplane topic, I thought I will share something – http://jayharishshah.blogspot.sg/2013/10/one-night-in-paris.html#!/2013/10/one-night-in-paris.html
a blog on air france which went viral in social media.

95. Tawhid81 - November 24, 2013

Wow – what an extensive list of comments. Here’s one of my observations from my work place that I find slightly awkward about Indians and their lack of consideration for others. We recently had to move to a new building and there was a concious decision not to have a microwave oven in the kitchen. Fact is, any UK office floor that has Indians working will witness the daily lunch festivity that takes place. The queue of 10 to 20 people behind a microwave oven was a sight to see followed by hoarding all tables in the cafeteria for the daily ritual. We had to repaint the old place because the kitchen walls smelled of stale curry, we had rodent problems because of food left in cupboards, and eventually led to the new building shift. Now that we have a kitchen without a microwave oven, it enforces people to either bring cold salad / sandwich or go and eat outside. Having a microwave oven leads to Indians bringing curry / stew based food from home, heat them up and have these so called ‘one dish party’ type setups. I mean, I enjoy curry myself and love the smell of biriyani – but I don’t want to live and work in that smell !!! These folks I am speaking of are not uneducated either – they range anything from a software developers to senior architects or project managers with Masters degrees under their belt.

So – here are few of the defensive statements I am expecting to receive from Indian blind nationalists:

“We know how to share and care for one another unlike you”
“Do we complain when you (westerners) congregate over alcohol”
“What kind of office do you work where there is no regard for inclusion and diversity”
“We offer cheap labour in the market which is instrumental to your economy, therefore you must learn to live by our customs ” etc etc

Debate what you may, I can’t really bother defending my argument (because I am not making one). All I am doing is sharing a story and my hypothesis which is: when Indians are among themselves, the sense of unity kicks in and they think they are in India – therefore they start behaving like no one else matters and there is no such thing as the other guy’s private space.

96. Mac JT (@macjoubert) - November 25, 2013

Okay just got back Stateside on an EK flight from India.
I have to say that the ride was somewhat smoother, not much cringe-worthy incidents except for the kids running problem

Incidentally these were the same kids who ran up and down the aisle on my trip to India, now they troubled me on the way back.
This time I would none of it, I told the kid NO RUNNING PLEASE many many times before actually having a word with their parents. Who turned out to be a bunch of spineless “my kids cant do any wrong” types.

Now on to my real beef.
You know what, it is what it is. Many of these companies are surviving because of Indian travelers , are they difficult , perhaps yes they are, are they uncouth in YOUR eyes, yes perhaps they are. But the airlines need them.

Yes there are different kinds of Indians, those who behave more or less similar to Western ideals of behavior and those that are almost uncivilized in a the same Westerner’s eyes.
Now do you see Indians complaining when Westerners kick people sleeping in railway stations for fun, talk loudly and molest women on city streets,how about insulting Indians in their own country where they’ve come to make some coin for their companies?

Dont get me wrong, I agree with you 100% , but it’s pretty much the same at the other end too, Americans and Europeans thinking their shit doesnt stink and behaving terribly in other countries.

This plus the fact that Indians are treated terribly by airlines staff, I read about the Air France fiasco too, absolutely appalling treatment. Had this happened to a bunch of Americans Obama may have been called to intervene!

97. Victoria - November 26, 2013

Hi. I am a cabin crew from a top asian airline and I just found myself hating having to serve the indians. They just make the worse group of customers. Yes, there are nasty people everywhere but, Indians typically bring out the worse of all. The Writer is true in that sense.

As long as they are a customer, they can make a hell out of your service. So any boss serving them directly might choose not to earn their money. These are based on the facts I have encountered from cab drivers to shop owners. They left their rubbish in the cabs, they take forever to get out of cabs, they request the drivers to take their bags. Shop owners; and one I have encountered is from North Asia whom they are well-known for their great services and mannerism yet, at a shop in Auckland this indian was being so difficult and harassing the staffs for more than an hour, the shop keeper just told him to take his money back but can still refuse to leave the shop.

Hello nasty indians, who can pack your own bags and yet not be able to carry them. You are not a handicap and people in the service industry, be it cabin crew or drivers. They are not your personal porter. So please, carry your own bags.

I have many cabin crew friends who always complain about indians. and they love having many baggages with them. For god sake, please just have them check in. Why do you bring up so many things when you are not suppose to? And do not ask the cabin crew to carry your bags whether it is heavy or not. It is not our responsibility.

As long as i have friends in the frontline, just anywhere, as long as indians came along, it usually means trouble.

The many, many comments towards the indians here just say one thing. Most of the bad behaviors came from them.

Maybe the airline industry should also stepped up in their instructions and restrictions towards the indians since so many of them do not have manners, etiquette nor know how to behave in public places and enclosed public place like an airplane.

98. anna - November 30, 2013

Sad you had to face such problems.
Bt indians are not bad people and they can be really helpful at times..you just hav to meet the right ones. Anyways everyone has flaws. Its better you learn to adjust with it.

99. Aya - December 6, 2013

I agree with your blog. It is not opinion, but is fact, unfortunately. It is also depends on what’s kind of people they are. I think young Indian people, who educated or grow in north America or Western country, have some manner. I’m Japanese and my husband is, in fact, Indian. I met him at an university in north America which I went. He is just like local North Americans except his appearance. He is quiet and calm, gentle, pure,open-mind, flexible to other culture and manner, and well-mannered…. While He and I were living in North America, I did not imagine that Indian can be rude, so I guess I am lucky one who got rare and proper(?) Indian. However, right now, I am living in India with him for family reason….Oh…. my god…. First 1 month, I thought about committing suicide…. that much it is harsh environment, no-system, no cleanliness and corrupted country. People are really arrogant, high-ego, axis of the earth, racism, over boastful, narcissist,and stubborn. Every time I face those aspect of Indians, my heart is always broken into fragments and wet my pillow every night and missing my country. Nowadays I started lean how to ignore and let them go, though… Mostly, what you described in your blogs keep happening in India. Indian kids are painfully spoiled…. When I saw kids standing on table with wearing shoos and roaring
nobody scold them(sometimes, parents are the one who put kids on the table by themselves) at high-end restaurant, I was so shocked! like…was it happening on this earth?! It was not restaurant, like zoo…..In India, complaining parents about their kids are considered as rude…. but I always think they are RUDE to bothering public…. One day when my husband’s friend visited my home with his wife and children, his kids all the time chase and abuse my cat by pulling tail and kicking. I was so angry and almost cry….To Husband and me, the cat is like my kid… but I could not complain parents and scold kids…. so I put my cat in another room rocked the door for a while. Still Kids are demanding stubbornly to get the cat out! I asked kids whether they would not burry my cat. They said “no!” strongly, and I asked ” Why not?” kindly. They said ” That how it is !!!” So, I did not open and kept ignoring their demand, but they keep making drama around their parents. Finally, What their parents said with command way to me is ” Hey,Will you bring the cat out of the room???”
I was surprised and make my thin eyes big round! I thought “Who’s cat do you think?! Firstly, my cat is not a toy for your stupid kids! If you want toys for them, why don’t you get your own!!!? ”
Rarely, I have seen parents who scold kids properly and effectively in my life in India. Some of Indian moms hit their kids with scolding unreasonably… otherwise I have never seen Indian parents scold at their kids reasonably.
Parents are irresponsible for educating kids… I think even schools educate kids proper manner, parents and grandparents spoil all of the effort which school made.
Kids in India are very spoiled and non-educated social manner, and no-discipline, and these are how Indian people grow really arrogant and self-centered way…I guess….

I know there are some well-mannered people in India, though….

fetzthechemist - December 6, 2013

I sympathize greatly with you. Japanesd are taught to respect others and to be kind a .nd couteous. Kids are raised to learn good morls and values. Indians seldom are. Spoed is an understatement.

100. Aya - December 7, 2013

Thanks for your sympathy. Because my husband is really understanding and supportive, I managed to live in India :). Early time I was struggling with cultural difference, but I started to get used to it, too. Also, it helped me to understand their culture gradually in both good way and bad way. I can see bad aspect like the fact which I written in above comments, but I also respect Indian historical people’s opinion in modern history as well. They have great and interesting philosophers! No doubt they are intelligent. So, this is why it was very hard for me to talk about bad aspects, but I also agreed the contents of your blog so much. So, I could not stop to share what I saw in India.
I think their interest in education is concentrated on subjects at school only, not about how to live in group and to develop kids’ mentality. Their education start with competition and end with competition, so that many parents would not aware of kids’ behavior and mental growth such as maturity, but the grade at the school. I have worked at a private school in India as a teacher temporally, and I saw teachers there doing really really great effort to educate manner! But, I believe manner education should be done both side; home and school, and manner&morals are the priceless and precious property which parents can give to kids. I guess extreme competitive&busy society is the reason why parents would not care neither manner nor building healthy society. Also India has variety of folks, cultures and values are there, so people are really competitive to survive in their identity. This can be reason as well… I have seen good parents and well mannered Indian people from military service and scholars. Their individual experience are really respectful since they go around the nation and world as their work nature. Like they do in strange place, I hope those air plane ill-mannered people can lean something from local society in the US and from the variety of people living in the US and improve their manner in airplane.

101. Aya - December 7, 2013

Sorry for my long long comment and I can see lots of grammatical and spelling error when I read my comment again. Sorry if it is hard for you to read it. As I see through all of the contents here, I respect you and people who left comments here. It looks really great arguments to think about the cultural cause on a people’s behavior ,and people can argue with staying away from discrimination on this topic except some comments. I appreciate your blog is so great!

102. Zak - December 9, 2013

I used to be a flight attendant too and all of us hate Indian passengers. They are amazingly rude! They have no clue about words like “please” or “thank you”. They just look at you and say “whiskey” or “water”. They want anything they can get for free, it even happened to several colleagues to get the food they bring from home stolen by Indians if they leave it unattended for more than 2 minutes. Some are nice of course (two of my best buddies are Indians) but if any country in the world has 1 % of a**holes, India has got nearly 50 %. The worst are the ones with a UK or US passport who think they are superior to others. Indians are also the ones who would ask you any stupid questions, not because they need an answer but because they want to bother you. They would ask you the list of wines then ask for water. What is wrong with those people seriously? The main reason for cabin crew to resign is because we cannot deal with those mean people. I really feel like respect is not part of the Indian culture at all, even for those who have spent many years abroad.

Starwars - December 20, 2013

And if any country has 1% racist people, yours will have 50% i guess :))

fetzthechemist - December 20, 2013

Why is it that only some Indians point out racism as an issue on this? In talking to myIndian-American friends about this blog, they point out that India has racism – the darker ones skin, the less socially acceptable a person is in many Indians’ view. In addition, India retains its caste system in practice, even if it was outlawed. Employment, marriage, social interactions are all controlled by the still-extant vestiges of the caste system.

Udit - May 13, 2015

I am an Indian working for customer industry.. Whatever u have said, it’s 100% true. .Indians are horrible to deal with.. Their ego keeps on hurting for any stupid things not even related to them. Even if u stand right in front of them giving ur personalised attention through out the flight than also they will never be satisfied… Indians with UK or us passport holders are seriously dumb people high on their egos… They lie to any limit to prove them self right or to seek some free miles, free gifts or to get the attention.. You will be shocked to see the attrition rate amongst staff be it’s ground or flying crew, working for the well known full service career of India… One of my friend even said that we don’t deserve hospitality or customer service as we don’t value it in a right way… Throughout the flight no matter how long or short the flight is, the only thing u will see them doing is eat, drink,shit and fart.. They make the toilets extremely dirty and mess it completely… Ego is so high that they hardly show any interest in understanding others and just want things done in their favour.. Wherever they find the place be it’s the seats near the bulkhead or the emergency exits, they will not even spare that extra Little space and spread all their belonging around that place… Its horrible

103. Santhosh - December 13, 2013

Hello friends,
Just returned from a trip to London. While returning in Emirates A.. I had one of the worst experiences of my flight life. Well it was dinner time and the dinner was being served by the hostess, while she came near me she whispered to her co-hostess “Indian” and they both had a slight laugh, and by whispering I mean she was loud enough that people seated two rows behind me were able to hear it. I acted as if I did not hear anything!
Is it wrong that Indians should not travel by flight or should Indians travel only by Indian Airlines? I was really offended by her behaviour that I decided to get back home and search for it on google, and yes I typed into the search ‘Indians are ..’ and it suggests me- ‘Indians are noisy’, and I hit upon this blog and im surprised that people have been commenting here for more than a year , and it is really a healthy discussion.
Yes friends, Indians ARE noisy, and to give you all a better background of your Indian co passenger,
and I do not intend to justify the reason for being noisy, I am just trying give you and insight of what happens here.
Most of us Indians have never travelled by air, say 99%. So the Indian passenger you are seeing is most probably flying for the first time in their life.
And for people referring to about Indian ladies, well friends unlike in Europe or America, an average Indian woman is confined to her house and social gatherings at the maximum. So she does not have much of a public life.
And Indian women love to flaunt their jewellery everywhere, be it a shopping mall, or an aeroplane.
Most of the times, Indians travel on package tours, and hence they are in a big group always, which means more noise.
Coming to the smelly part, it was really racious, India is a country where most of the time the temperature is around 35°C , so we Indians tend to sweat a lot, and also I need to mention that most Indians DO NOT use perfumes! Excluding the younger urban population.
The next time you fly with a Indian co passenger, I suggest you smile a little and say hello, and I bet the next moment you would be one among their family members. 🙂
Now let all the bricks and bats come 😉

104. fetzthechemist - December 14, 2013

One new one that epitomizes the attitudes. On a flight back to the US, EK 226, a woman with a baby stood up to walk the baby around because it was crying. Why was this bad behaviour? The timing, the plane was speeding down the runway just seconds before lifting off! This Indian ignored the seated with seatbelt on rule. Indians do not recognize rules or anything requiring order, they just do whatever impulsive thing comes into mind.

Without order and rules in society, Indiand are like children of 6 or 8, willful and impulsive, not thinking of others or of consequences.

105. Santhosh - December 14, 2013

You like it or not, but you do not have to be so racist against a country and their people
Mr.Fetzthechemist , what do you mean to say by, ‘INDIA MUST BE A CHAOTIC HELLHOLE’ , is that not enough reason to say you were racious? Whats the difference between a passenger not letting you sleep, and a blogger using unhealthy words, while I agree to some of the points stated above, I cannot withstand these kinda racist comments!

fetzthechemist - December 14, 2013

It is not the sole and trivial thing of not being able to sleep. It is the dozens and dozens of different behaviours that show an utter lack of consciousness to others, that show to concern of rules or of orderlyness. Indians hear the boarding announcements by sections or zones and all crowd up to the gate area,blocking it from those who are supposed to be boarding. Thus, boarding takes longer and these flights are delayed. This is but one example. If you read my comment regarding today’s flight you would have read the non-trivial one of someone standing and walking around as the plane took off.

As far as racism, this is not about that. It is about ignorance, disrespect, obviousness, and lack of courtesy and manners. Without those, you have a chaotic society where everyone makes everyone else’s live more difficult. That is a hellhole. If Indians were different then more would happen positively there.

Zak - December 16, 2013

Saying the India is a hellhole is not racist, it’s just a fact. I’ve been to Calcutta and I’ve never seen anything so dirty except from Dhaka in Bangladesh. Same chaos, same dirtiness but at least Bangladeshi are very nice and polite people. One of my best buddies is from Delhi, making high studies and his main goal is to move to US or Europe and take his parents with him. Face it, if India was a great and nice countries, there wouldn’t be some many people desperate to immigrate to other places.

Starwars - December 20, 2013

And if those other countries are not so desperate for talent they would not take do many indians right :)?

fetzthechemist - December 20, 2013

Indians are cheap labour that often does the minimally acceptable job. Companies hire them because they are OK and cheap.

106. Tawhid81 - December 15, 2013

We live in an era where political correctness is paramount. Everyone is super careful before making any remarks that can be perceived as being racist. I am not. I will call a spade a spade. And so I have just one thing to say: Indian or not – if you are being inconsiderate to me, then you will receive the same treatment. Don’t give me excuses of ‘how we were raised and that’s how we are etc etc’.

You have not invited me to your house, neither have I. We have both paid equal amounts to fly and co-exist in a public domain, and therefore I will demand that I receive the consideration and fair share of service I have paid for. I don’t understand why victims / people think they will be looked down upon if they stood up and scolded a group miscreants who are ruining the experience of others because of their noise, body odor or any such unpleasant activities. Don’t you dare turn around with your oscillating heads and say – ‘Oh, we love curry breath and armpit air, if you can’t deal with it, sorry’.

Honestly, far too often I’ve had day long flights absolutely ruined by people who simply do not understand what consideration or politeness is. Did you hear about the French coffee shop in Nice which started charging extra for people who are not courteous? At point in the future, Emirates and other airlines should start adopting that culture.

107. blind - December 17, 2013

Its all easy to be ‘cultured’ and polite and honest when you have lot of money and live in a ‘first’ world society or environment.

Get off your high horse. Europe was bad or worse than this just a few 100 years back, and you give the vibe that you guys have always been ‘cultured’ /civilized right from the beginning of time.

A few things that might help in understandin.

-India is ethnically very diverse and customs & habits vary quite a lot across various communities.

– India is 3rd world. meaning corruptions and in-efficient goverment. You cannot survive in indian environment by being polite to other people. Everyone distrusts everyone else, by default.

– illteracy. i would put this as the main cause for the poor behaviour. Most of the people flying to gulf countries would be the un-educated labor class. These are the ones you guys need to cut a little slack.

– Regards to kids : children have right of way , in any and every situations. Children and their mothers/ pregnant women can do whatever they want.
I totally agree with this, i and i do beleive this is how it should be. I really do find westerners , who complain ( most of the time unfairly ) , about children, to be rude and selfish.

– Because of poverty all around , those who are well off , or have attained good education , end up as arrogant asshats. This will not improve unless the standards of living improve across all communities in india.

– The thank you’s – helping someone else out is something everyone is expected to do , so the ‘thank you’ culture has not caught on. Thats just the way things are here. And when people help out, they do not expect a ‘thank you’ fro you.

no one here raises their kid with bad ‘morals’ or behavior. The dynamics in a 3rd world society are entirely different from a first world , materialistic society, where there is enuff money for everyone to lead a luxirious lifestlye in a hug mansion and hardly have to deal with crowds.

fetzthechemist - December 17, 2013

These flights are not those poor Indians going to the UAE. These are flights between Dubai and the US. Your attitude condones Indian behaviour wherever Indians are or go. It is this that makes Indians so disliked arrogant and ignorant of the rest of the world. I have learned to be rude and mean-s pirited, but only towards Indians like these on my flights.

blind - December 18, 2013

If you want to rude, thats your call.

Also, just curious. How are you able to differentiate between an indian, pakistani, bangladeshi and sri-lankan ?

fetzthechemist - December 18, 2013

The number of non-indians is small and mostly Pakistanis. Those people are quite different. The sheer numbers by populations and the demographics that Bangladeshis and Lankans are rare in the San Francizco area, make their numbers on these flights tiny. The two or three hundred are from Indian. The Lankans I have met in Dubai and the UAE are either educated and polite or uneducated and extremely reserved. There must be huge cultural differences between India and Sri Lanka.

blind - December 18, 2013

well. there is no homogenous ‘indian culture’ as such, like compared to sri-lanka. It varies wildy from south to north and east to west and within communities as well.

The tamils of south india have racial/ cultural similarity with the sri-lankans and both have similar tendencies. Ofcourse, unless you are going to point out that you have encountered rude tamilians also.

In general, south indians tend to be the quite introspective and mild , while north indian are more financially driven and shrewd, north-east are similar to east-asians racially and culturally, and western indians are more agressive / loud..

fetzthechemist - December 18, 2013

“It is impossible not to conclude that you have a deliberate bias against ‘Indians’, in whatever sense of the word you give it and for whatever reasons you have have or not stated.” I had no feelings one way or the other before I started making these trips in 2009. This negative opinion of Indians as a group grew from the experiences on these flights. It concurs with the opinions of many, many others who have posted here. We all see the same bad behaviours, the arrogance that comes with it, and the attitude that that is just too bad for anyone suffering from them and that there will be no changes.

blind - December 18, 2013

Also, there is no racial or ethnic majority in india . unlike most countries( actually any country i know ) . So there is nothing which can be considered an ‘indian’ culture , unless you refer to religion which is the only common ground amongst across communities ( and across neighbouring countries as well ) .

But, according to your blog / comment(s) , it looks like the only thing common to most indians ( vis-a-vis its neigbhours) is the rude and boorish behaviour of the indians and it is this alone which is most common to indians across all communities but not spilling onto its neigbhouring countries..

It is impossible not to conclude that you have a delibrate bias against ‘indians’, in whatever sense of the word you give it and for whatever reasons you have have or not stated.

108. Mac JT (@macjoubert) - December 19, 2013

It is actually hilarious to read how the Westerners are crying about the poor social skills of Indian travelers. Now in my opinion the complaint is 100% legit, but that being said, its so disingenuous of Westerners, i mean after all the same all to polite Westerners when they travel through railway stations they kick poor homeless people onto the tracks, but hey there has to be some loophole to show them in positive light.
How about the way they say the fancy thank yous and the fancy Hellos only to bitch and curse at you behind your back (a quintessentially White woman phenomenon BTW).

How about that French guy in China basically grabbing a woman on the street demanding you know what, or that Russian conductor kicking a woman sitting in front in a train and then spitting on her just out of spite.Lots of examples of polite “Westerners” behaving badly.

Indians are many things but one thing they dont have to do, is to conform to “Western” standards of politeness.

Im sure the elitist stewards on the Titanic didnt think much of the steerage either. They still worked for the pay nonetheless.

fetzthechemist - December 19, 2013

Whenever someone debates a topic and muddles generalities versus specific cases, it reflects a very weak situation. Pointing out the extremely rare situation of a Frenchman in China does not excuse Indians of the widespread groping on buses and trains in India or the numerous recent gang-rapes. The behabiours pointed out here by me and others are not the actions of a tiny fraction of the hundreds of passengers on each flight who are Indians. If that were the case, then each incident would be both infrequent and episodic. Instead, these happen on each and every flight and most often many more times than once.

Before each flight, they announce boarding by zones or sections. Do Indians wait until their turn to board and allow the others who are supposed to be boarding to pass through to the gate? Never! They just jam up to the gate and are repeatedly told that it is not their turn to board. They persist, boarding is slowed to a crawl.

During each flight, do Indians ever care if they intentionally sit in the wrong seat or drop a bag on you as they try to get something from it or step into your seating area and step on your foot or bump you with an elbow? Never! They think it is bad if you do the reverse, though- I have intentionally done this to those who did it to me and get a shocked look. If they do it to me, it passes unnoticed, but mine is met with dismay. Rude hypocisy.

Mac JT (@macjoubert) - December 19, 2013

The only one muddling a generality is you.
It is NOT rare that westerners misbehave in other countries.NOT rare at all.
Again drawing a parallel to groping of Indian women by Indian men in this discussion is nothing but muddling a generality grammatically a red herring.
If you cared to read my post, the “Indians behaving rudely” postulation has been conceded in the very first sentence.

That being said let me get this straight , you can be generic and you can be specific when it’s convenient for you , cases in point, generalize Indian behavior and isolate Sri Lankan behavior even though you met only 1 and now somehow all Pakistanis and all Sri Lankans are Kosher passengers.

Let me ask you one thing, doesn’t it surprise you that this “Indian behavior” only surfaces in planes, why not on the street, why aren’t you cut in line by Indians in SFO, or in restaurants or in movie theaters or ….

One thing everyone needs to note is the following, European sectors are drying up of passengers, the 3 major Middle East carriers continue their US push ONLY because the huge Indian population can support such frequencies of flights.
So all you stewards and stewardesses complaining, you better be thankful for where you are because the other carriers are shedding loads and employees because , yes the same uncouth Indians aren’t flying them anymore.

Lastly I don’t like asking for much on the plane, don’t even argue when meals are switched, but even then the request for the odd glass of water gets me the stink eye. Agreed it’s probably because of the paths well worn by other Indians and the stewards are wary of such people, but this gets under my skin.
Yes i’ll say it, all White , under 25 , Eastern European Skirts are just ……

fetzthechemist - December 19, 2013

You raised the question about it being possible that Sri Lankans, Pakistanis, or Bangladeshis were at fault. They are virtually non-existent on these flights. I meet the occasional Pakistani on them, and the other 2 are extremely rare. So the point is that it is Indians who are behaving these ways.

Yes, Indians fill the planes, thus the inclusion of an Indian menu choice for every meal – plus the special vegetarian choice, too. Your logic then leads to the idea that since they pay, they can treat the cabin crew like crap, like they do their own servants when in India. This is precisely why Indians are clueless about other people. When in the UAE or another country in the region, if I shopped at an Indian-owned store or ate at an Indian restaurant, your thinking says that I am justified to be rude to the hosts and those who wait on me, no matter what since I pay the bill. Idiotic notion, right?

When these happen dozens of times on each flight, it is not a set of isolated incidents. It is a pattern of one group of people behaving as if they are the only ones that mattered. Not being in that group, I think this is rude, discourteous, selfish, and arrogant.

109. Ajay Singh - December 20, 2013

I am a Platinum member on Emirates. I probably fly much more than you, and on Economy (I do get upgraded many a times, and I am sure so do you). I have hardly ever seen this kind of behavior. Maybe I am just lucky to get placed with well behaved Indians the dozens of times I have flown Emirates.

Are you sure you have not just bundled one-off incidents into one long thread and projected it as a recurring theme?

You must also note the cultural difference. In India, most people are used to traveling by train, where congregating, putting food trays on the side etc., is the norm (because there is enough space in a train in India to do that – its a social gathering at all times in a train). First time plane flyers consider this another mode of transport, and there is no awareness provided that they suddenly have to make a change in behavior.

I have lived in the US for 10+ years, and I could write a long post with everything that is wrong about the behavior of the people there.

You are not changing their behavior by writing a blog post about it. Next time, take out some time to courteously explain and spread awareness. If you are successful in doing that, only then can you claim that you yourself have behaved in the right manner.

What do you think?

110. Starwars - December 20, 2013

This whole post seems exaggerated. And your logic that indians fill the flights thats why they have vegetarian menu is there is insane as well 🙂 its not just indians who eats vegetarian. There are few bad behaviours but that applies to most of the people from other nationalities as well. If a person behaves bad then its his behaviour and not because he is an indian. Its like saying jack the ripper is a murderer because he is from uk. If you are generalizing a national because of your few flight trips its absurd. Oh and BTW the only continent i havent been to is antarctica. And yes by your tone of blog its unbelievable that you would let a lady bully you to leave your seat.

fetzthechemist - December 20, 2013

I did not say the vegetarian choice was due to the Indians. I said there is one Indian meal, ike chicken tikka or some such dish, even though there are vegetarian choices aimed at the Hindus who request them (which must be around a hundred per flight). This does highlight one observation that implies a lot of people flying who have not done much before. People need to request a vegetarian meal as their preference when making their booking/ seating arrangements, so the airline has an approximate idea of how many to have on hand. New fliers donot know this and complain because one was not set aside for them. (An analogous thing happens often with the overhead storage bins, where a passenger complains because his or her space has been taken by someone else’s bags.) Maybe a lot of these things would not happen if new Indian fliers were told that these are not like the trains of Indian or that airports are not railway stations.

Zak - December 20, 2013

I was cabin crew, I can tell you that the only flights with a vegetarian option are the Indian flights and the UK and US ones (full of Indians). Other flights serve vegetarian meals as a “special meal” that passengers get before the service starts. 95 % of people taking those meals are Indians. On a regular flight, the more Indians, the more troubles. And on some European flights, only a group of 10 Indians will make your life miserable while the 200 other passengers will be nice and polite. I don’t write that to bother you but because this is the truth. You can ask any cabin crew or passengers flying regularly to/from the Middle East.

111. Chris - December 20, 2013

I am a regular flyier with Emirates and several other airlines, i am gold member of Emirates and Senator of star alliance . I dread the flight with Emirates i am Indian origin myself and live in several parts of the world as have business in many countries.

I can agree with this blog that Indians are extremly arrogant and have no respect of other humans no sooner they cross a landmark the so called 1 crore INR money gets on their heads and if they know a far of polititian they tend to think they own the world, every businessman i meet in India or a tea boy seems to know the chief minister of the state where i meet them and try to use the scare tactics , ask them for money when you do business with them and they come with a million excuses. They treat the house help like slaves and dont even say hello to them which is just in India.

I had dinner with a East African family and their maid had dinner with us on the same table , i had the fortune to meet the king of abu dhabi who even shaked hands with the watchman of a project site.

Indians think they purchsed the aircraft by buying the cheapest economy ticket and talk loudly , laugh their loudest drink alcohol because its free and crate all sort of scene.

Its just sick to travel with them, pathetic!!

112. Chris - December 20, 2013

The arrest if Devyani Khobragade is a classic example of how Indians take for granted that their pennies can buy them the world , the diplomat who was supposedly to be supporting womens rights broke the rules and fell low to give her pennines to be her slave and work 24/7 clean her toilets and all and expected the diplomatic immunity to save her.

There are millions of such Indians who hire the maids in Dubai, USA , UK the arrest of Diyani is the tip of the iceberg, i hope that they learn that the dont own the globe and behave in the countries they live in and respect fellow humans.

They should respect public places like trains , planes etc. and stop behaving like retarded humans

fetzthechemist - December 20, 2013

A society’s true scale of valuing people is not how they treat the top echelons, but how they treat the lower ones.

DieHard Israel fan - July 15, 2015

As a person born and bred in India with the right values and with a realist thought process, let me just respond to that statement with one simple and yet very effective word to demonstrate my reaction to your post.
“AMEN!”

113. krish - December 22, 2013

fetzthechemist…..cant figure out what species u belong to, but obviously virulently anti Indian I guess. possibly even a trifle rabid! I find Europeans equally lousy when it comes to inflight manners, same goes with their kids.

krish

fetzthechemist - December 22, 2013

I have flown on flights full of Germans, Britishers, Dutch, and Frenchmen numerous times to and from Europe. Yes, some behaviours of a few individuals are bad, but as a proportion, these flights with Indians have much, much more and it is just about each and every flight (unless I have enough miles to upgrade and avoid them). European and American parents are getting to be more indulgent with their kids, but have a long way to catch u to Indian ones who are totally oblivious that their rowdy, screaming kids are disturbing others. The nearest competition Indians have for rudeness would be those from mainland China.

fetzthechemist - December 22, 2013

There are to groups of responders to this post and thread, either you are a proud, nationalist Indian who blames these views on racism or due to unacceptance that Indian social norms are quite normal and nothing different than those of many other nations or you see these things commonly in experiences and think a large proportion of Indians are unmannered and rude. In population numbers that might mean a billion in each group, but 1 nation versus over a hundred others.

114. Chris - December 22, 2013

The funny thing in this blog is how some Indians try to defend their rude behavior. I am Indian origin and i know 1 thing when you are in India a North Indian wont tolerate the One from Southern part , they hate each other as soon as they make a little money.

But let a race superior to them say anything and they all get united and show that they are the best , fact is being a population of over a billion it is almost a failed nation with high corruption , No maufacturing base. No Infrastructure . The main reason for this being they just dont want to accept they are wrong and that they cant improve!!

Well the economy is in taters but no this the 20% of Indians who sit on the top of economic ladder wont accept and continue to behave as if they own the planet!!

Pathetic.

Roy - December 29, 2013

I bet you are S Indian , hence you feel N Indians do not like S Indians
Well Indians intact anyone hates anyone with money irrespective of state
Superior race –which planet are you on , if you so inferior then why are has darwins theory not sorted your kind out
You know as well as I do Indias problems is simple ..everyone is different to each other, I mean lets be honest a unifying language is Hindi yet S Indians refuses to speak or worse still acknowledge that they understand when most do , as do Marathis , Keralites , Kannads need I go on
And yes I agree with a lot of what you say but Chris why imply someone else is superior , do you not have any self pride , I mean read the speech of Nathu Godse , find it read it …what he said in court when he was going to be hanged ..see if it helps

115. Observer - December 27, 2013

First of all, I find it absurd that some Indians are insisting that you cannot tell Pakistanis and Indians apart. They are selling themselves short by suggesting that 1B+ (India) + (~.2 B) are indistinguishable. In fact, it is rather easy to distinguish Punjabi-Indians from West-Bengali-Indians, etc.

Second, the apparent lack of manners, etc among a subset of the people is probably due to the fact that their current context is dramatically different from the context they were brought up in. Unlike in business, hiring in IT seems to be based on technical merit alone, which has led to the immigration (to the US) of a large number of Indians who presumably do their jobs well, but are in some respects ill-prepared to function in certain social contexts. As they say, the man can leave the village, but the village never leaves the man!

The third point, and unlike my previous two points, the fault for this lies with the people themselves, is that the high economic growth rate has dramatically boosted Indian self-confidence. The meek, humble, and almost-subservient Indian immigrant has yielded to the brash, over-confident Indian who somehow keeps forgetting that the world doesn’t revolve around him.

A culture of servants and extreme inequality between socioeconomic strata exist in countries like Pakistan too. However, I personally think that this notion of looking down on and disrespecting cabin crew, having disregard for other people has something to do with the caste system ingrained in Indian culture. I bet that if you follow one of these people to his workplace in SF, you’ll see him behave in the opposite extreme manner.

Roy - December 29, 2013

You have no understanding of the caste system or why it originated how originated it yet you talk , and you claim it is ingrained in Indian culture .

As for caste ask one question to begin with about Ajlaf and Ashraf see if pakistan , bangladesh hell even iran iraq saudi for that matter EU USA S America any state can look you in the eye and hand on heart tell you the truth
Caste as you say exists everywhere just called something different
Sadly the authors who teach and write about this tend to follow a trodden path and requires a little lateral reading to understand the truth e.g. Even I know USA is great country and astoundingly beautiful with intelligent and bright people but at the same time has a whole load of crap as well . Funny thing is all countries are like this

Caste in India to put it bluntly and simply was dependant on what you did not what you were born into
Over time just as it is today ,,,Businessmen children tend to do business fields , Academics tend to do academic fields and Entertainers etc etc . Sure there are not all the same but as before it the caste , that is the title dependant on what you ended up as
It was then used as dividing notion by every person who came to the land known as India today

Yes subservient is what the world would like Indians to be , You know yes sir 3 bags full sir after all who else will massage an ego or give someone a sense an air of control

Now in terms of this post you can tell the difference between Indians just as you can tell the difference between British , German Russian Italian you know after all e.g. to coin a phrase stiff upper lip boring ugly , pedantic safe , humourless , cold harsh cruel criminals and romantic mafiesqu tanned black hair..seriously dude if you are going down this route then you sound a little tunnel visioned —not everything is easy so as to say

I am sure you are trying to be educated and intelligent but the truth is please read about the caste system , read how it started what it was and what it was made out to be and by whom and who used it to their advantage . This is too complicated to teach

It appears there is a lot of Indian bashing happening here , some justified but most I think are the typical bandwagons ]As for self confidence its about as self confident as the Brits thinking they are the sanctimonious people to rule th world and act in the correct way , the USA believing that USA is the World full stop and lets face it the Islamic world believing that theirs is the only way to live eat sleep and so on
The World is not revolving around anyone and no matter Indian or non Indian so to imagine stating this makes you sound a little medievalist,

And the Indians who are going on about we are all the same well you know what they are all pc dingos and want to be friends with everyone as we all know a friend of everyone is a friend of no one , i.e. life

Il-prepared for social context such a underhanded statement its astonishing , Maybe you can phrase it differently after all certain cultures are all terrorists , certain cultures are all drunkard hooligans who watch football , certain cultures are all pizza eating wine drinking sausage eating get my drift ..I mean what are you implying here .

I think the vast majority of Indians you come across tend not to frequent your boudoir and I am not sure you would want it , but yes when it comes too the filthy rich well throughout the world its all the same , same social graces and same warped social attitudes
Indians around the world , as I think are a lot of cultures will happily stab each other make fun of each other to suck **** , and thats fine , I accept that is life . There are a lot of Indians who are shy about their history and try and avoid it by going overboard or way out on a limb to prove a point . This sadly I think is predominantly an Indian trait , the much I would like to believe other cultures do it –maybe they do , maybe they do it 10 x worse
It astounds me to this day that one comes out with stuff like this

As far as caste goes the fault lies with the Delhi and Lodhi sultanates propagated by the British and used to maximum effect by the politicians of today ..I could teach you but its better for you to read yourself as then you can make your own mind ..but make sure you read from all angles i.e. British , Dutch , Islamic and “Indians” as per se , in inverted commas because you know I know India as a name did not exist before 1947 ,,but again too deep for this type of blog

On a lighter note , now you and I both have an opinion I am sure we can shake hands and be friends and lets go for beers hot dogs and a game of baseball yes because after all we are all entitled to our views but mature enough to respect each other and share some good times

Bottom line is you get a holes everywhere and every part of life its just the way it is , and unfortunately they get what they want because most of just can not be bothered with the hassle . that is unless they come up against a 2 faced , cunning sly no integrity no honour dirty backstabbing liar from an inferior quality tribal existence ….also known by the generic term of politicians

The above is all an opinion and it does not have to be reflection on anyone alive or deceased , any correlation is merely coincidental

fetzthechemist - December 29, 2013

You must read the writings of Indians who fought for a free and democratic India, the things written by Gandhi, Nehru, and many others in the 1930s and 1940s paint a very different picture of the strength of the caste system and how it affected life in India. It was not just some loose system of passing work down through generations. Many castes, at the time termed lower castes – including the Untouchables – were born into a very limited future. Work, education, marriages, friendships were defined by what caste you were born into, thus the huge push to outlaw it to create a democratic India. The psychology and vestigial attitudes of that system still affect India and how many Indians behave towards others.

PK - February 24, 2014

The IT industry in the states has gone to hell in a handbasket since the H1B rush from India and to a lesser degree mainland China. Fake resumes and degrees are the norm rather than the exception. The standard operating procedure is to get their friends and family to hire them in a company and then kickback a fraction of their first year’s salary to their benefactor. As soon as they can, they try to get transferred into project management or quality control where they can simply forge the results.

So why does management love them so much? Kickbacks and bribes (Apex technology consultants was indicted recently) and the promise of cheap labor but typically the consulting firms double bill or charge extra for fixes (from the bad code the write) to make the project more expensive. Part of the disaster the American economy has become is due to an influx of H1B’s after the late 90’s.

decastigator - August 8, 2014

Present-day India is incorrectly viewed by the Western world through the prism of cast system. It is nearly impossible to read an article on India in National Geographic that does not mention the caste system. This is analogous to always viewing the Western world through the prism of slavery. Afterall the basic origin of caste system was simply an efficient division of labor. Before the advent of mechanical energy, any prosperous society (an India has been one throughout its 5000 yrs of history, the last 200 years being the exception rather than the rule) needed a division of labor. This is evident in slavery, feudalism and bonded labor in addition to the caste system. The caste system got the raw end of the stick because in the colonialist British literature, it was singled out as a retrograde feature of Hinduism which limited upwards mobility based on birth. Interestingly lack of upward mobility is also a feature of slavery and feudalism which was sanctified by the “black” church as can be read in “Uncle Tom’s Cabin.” Many Hindus converted to Islam to get out of the caste system only experience that it still existed in Indian Muslims. And interestingly enough, black churches, Iranian chruches and so on continue to exist in the US.

Two rights do not make a wrong (just as in the context of this blog, rowdy behavior, unruly kids and no deodorant on a flight are inexcusable for any ethnic group) and caste system was formally abolished in the Indian constitution in 1947-1950, much before the civil rights act was passed. Currently it exists in its reverse fashion, where reservations exists for around 50% of positions for “lower casts” in jobs, university admissions and so on much like the “affirmative action” and unlike the race-card, the caste-card is increasingly used to shut off free speech.

116. Roy - December 29, 2013

feta you really want to know what Gandhi said …read about the moplah rebellion and his speech

read what Godse said at his trial for assassinating M Gandhi
Gandhi was good initially but changed and for the worse

Nehru please read that The Nehru family starts with the Mughal man named Ghiyasuddin Ghazi– read up on it

Reich’s 2009 study, based on an analysis of 25 different Indian population groups, found that all populations in India showed evidence of a genetic mixing of two ancestral groups

I could talk about it in more detail regarding anthropology and the Vedas but it would take too long and too many questions but if you read you will hopefully find out

117. Gen-X Indian - December 31, 2013

fetzthechemist: A large part of what you say is right. Indians do not make great air travel companions. And apparently this is what the general consensus seems to be even among flight crews across the world. FYI I am an Indian who is well behaved and polite to people from all kinds of origins and doing all kinds of work. But I often realise that because of this kind of behavior that is displayed by other Indians, I am often talked to rudely and not served courteously by flight attendants. They usually consider me as another one of those unruly Indians even before I say anything and treat me coldly with rolling eyes and unnecessary restrain. And that’s where reading stuff like this hurts and feeds the stereotype.
As for the reasons are concerned, there are several. A few of them that I can think of are:

1. Often the politeness is lost in translation. Most of the Indians who travel abroad are not fluent/inherent English speakers. So they usually translate their own “Indian” language inside their head to English and say stuff. So what might be polite in their own language sounds really rude in English because they omit the parts that make it sound polite.

2. As mentioned in some other comment previously, travelling abroad is considered highly prestigious in the Indian society.So, when Indians travel outside they expect royal treatment, as if the flight attendants are their personal servants. I often see the same Indians behave in a better way after they have traveled a little more and understand that the flight crew are not servants.However, you will be surprised this actually is the case in many domestic/south asian flights where the crew’s treatment borders on being *royal* and they actually listen to this rude stuff without any restrain.

To sum up, even I look down upon this kind of behavior highly because the two points above do not apply to me and largely to the coming *new* generations who are better educated and even more well behaved than a lot of rude and unruly Americans and west Eurpoeans who I have encountered so far in my life.

fetzthechemist - December 31, 2013

It is bad that you and any other Indians are treated poorly only because you are Indian. I find, ingeneral, that crew members from eastern Europe are less polite than their colleagues from other parts of the world. It might be their natures or that being on such a flight is stressful and filled with bad experiences. I am normally very polite and thoughtful about other people, so saying “please” with a request or “thank you” often is natural and the crew often notices this (I once was given a bottle of wine on a domestic (US) flight by the crew as I left the plane, with thank yous for being so nice.)

118. MM - January 2, 2014

In every society there is good apple and bad apple. So, it is not just only Indians. Those people have bad bashing attitudes, towards Indians, please read this article:http://www.mensxp.com/work-life/leadership/21425-51-influential-global-indian-men-p46.html

fetzthechemist - January 2, 2014

That there are accomplished Indians, one valuable to society, is not the point. Even several thousand exemplary people out of over a billion is not unexpected. But it is irrelevant to the point. Success is not the quality that leads to these behaviours. A billionaire can be as big a jerk as a pauper. An eminent scientist or engineer can be as big of a pain as an uneducated person. Behaviours are due to attitudes and perspectives of one’s self and others. Good behaviours do not parallel success, nor do bad behaviours parallel failure.

119. dldjafd - January 21, 2014

I found this blog because I was interested in the EK226 flight as a polar flight, which I thought was something special and exciting. Well, now I surely do not want to take it.

Anyway, I wanted to comment on mainland Chinese (Im an Westerner living in China). I found that all things written here about Indians can be transferred 1:1 to mainland Chinese air travelers. Just two things make it worse:

A: Indians do speak English, Chinese never do. Example: On a recent flight from Dubai to Guangzhou, a Chinese broke the locked toilet door by force, because he didn’t understand the meaning of “occupied”. Another one didn’t even use the lock. Happens all the time.

B: Indians may be plenty, Chinese are more! Plus, they get rich fast and then show it off by traveling extensively abroad, while behaving just the same (or worse) as Indians.

The joys of flying with Chinese: screaming and shouting during sleeping time / ignoring seatbelt sign during turbulence / trying to talk on mobile phones during takeoffs / rushing to the exits just after touchdown (ignoring the FAs instructions and shouts!) / spending 30 mins on toilet is standard / peeing everywhere in the toilet and leaving a mess / call FAs because do not know how to change TV channel, reading lamp, use headphone… / spitting at the airport and on cabin toilet floor.

Well, all those who complain about our South Asian fellow travelers – you are not alone. And it just gets worse as you go to mainland China.

Also, I do not want to be a racist. I have Chinese girlfriend and have respect for this great culture. It just happens so massively, repeatedly and predictably, that some generalization of behavior is justified I believe.

In my opinion those behaviors (be it Indians or Chinese or other) can be solved by a culture of education, fines and persecution on behalf of the airlines. Just as the British did in Hong Kong and Singapore. Those citizens show some of the finest behaviors in the world; and some generations ago they were just where Chinese are today.

120. koda - January 22, 2014

I think modern day India is full of contradictions. It is a traditional country with old fashioned mindset and yet with now new influences from abroad, materialism of the west etc. It has horrid old fashioned views like the caste system which have still not been got rid of because these have been around for centuries. People in the villages will still kill their children if their children got married out of their caste system. This happens even today and has earned the term “honor Killings”. Treatment of women all over India is horrible, inhuman and pathetic and I would advise against any woman tourist going there. Please don’t. Indians do not treat their OWN women with respect let alone other women from outside. Indians are only concerned about themselves and their families and not about their neighbors or the city, County, state or country. An average Indian is very corrupt and dishonest. Indians do not have any concept of personal space, propriety, or personal or environmental hygiene. Each Indian is law unto himself or herself and will not follow any laws ( that was the legacy of the British) and will find ways to circumvent existing laws. India has also produced many thinkers, writers , scientists, entrepreneurs, engineers and doctors but all these people only flourish when they are OUTSIDE the country, never inside. The political system is a mockery and extremely self serving and corrupt and India is democracy only in name and each man in India strives to survive all by himself and if possible educate his children outside India. In reality it is anarchy thinly marketed as a democracy. Traveling with groups of loud curry smelling Indians with their sense of entitlement is really hard. They bump into you with large suitcases or push you and don’t even bother to apologize. They want the seat for themselves and will not bother to even offer you a place to sit. They will ask you to exchange a seat on the plane and expect you to comply. It does not bother them that the answer could also be a no. This place has some serious issues, not all of them will be tackled in a hurry.

121. koda - January 22, 2014

I have never seen any European behave badly on any flights and I have been on hundreds of different types of flights. Even the Chinese are far more subdued. The middle Easterners are really well behaved and extremely polite, I must say. Africans are actually nice and polite. The people who really stand out in this chaos competition are most definitely Indians and maybe some (very few) Bangla deshis. They also carry loads and I mean loads of baggage..They are always standing in these groups and talking in their native language rather loudly and their children are running around screaming all over the place.

122. josephh - February 1, 2014

“You think I am being racist or biased?” Why yes, yes I do! you are just arrogant and beleive that ‘Western ways are the most acceptable’? Well, if you plan to travel abroad to countries that are not ‘Western’, you cannot just expect people to be like you. Just because you beleive that the ways in which overs live and go about their daily routines is unacceptable, does NOT mean it is not acceptable. Your beliefs are not the only ones that count. I am Western too, but going to international schools has taught me that different cultures all have various ‘acceptable’ ways of life, and you are just going to have to live with it (so yes, in answer to your question, you are racist)! Shameful…

fetzthechemist - February 1, 2014

Why is it that you do nt have a mirrored view that they must understand me and compromise? I do not expect it to be totally my way, but I cannot accept that it be totally their either. If this Indian mother had of asked me for the seat, I might have, and probably would have, agreed and let her it there. Instead she demand it as if it were hers. I paid for my seat, just as she did hers. She did not get an aisle seat when she booked. That is her mistake. I specifically requested an aisle seat for several reasons of my own. Indians do not accept that anyone who is not Indian is an equal human being. They are oblivious to those unlike themselves. That is the real racism here.

josephh - February 1, 2014

I apologise for my rash conclusion after reading your post. Thank you for better enabling me to understand your opinion, and I see that your argument is strong. However, I still believe that your discrimination is needless, and your article uncalled for. I myself have travelled a fair amount around Europe and North America, and in the Middle East a little bit too. I can tell you that I have been on various flights with Russians, Turks, Germans, English people, Americans, and various other nationalities, and often these people behave poorly. I believe that it is due t a lack of experience and understanding that leads people to be this way, and because it can be hard for people to communicate with one another, these problems occur. All I am trying to say is that your flights are not the only ones with badly behaved adults and children, and the fact that you are so opinionated about one type of people is wrong

fetzthechemist - February 1, 2014

I flight very often and to and from many places. I would not have commented except the things I refer to are extraordinary and not just on a flight or two. Every flight to and from Dubai, which has been about 30 round trips, has been like this. The others agreeing, both passengers and flight crews, cannot be coincidence only.

123. koda - February 4, 2014

The very fact that we are discussing this topic over and at such great length makes it obvious that this is something very real and noticed regularly internationally. While there is no one right or wrong way, when people travel internationally and come from various cultures, there IS one way -which is to not be a pain to fellow travelers and be sensitive to the fact that inconveniencing fellow travelers bespeaks of a very uncivilized culture . Indians are only all about themselves. Never caring about others. In fact each Indian is law unto themself . Which is why there is utter lawlessness and chaos in that country. Basic manners have not been learnt in this culture and international sensitivity is far off. No one is being racist in this forum.

124. Joe - February 7, 2014

God bless the crew

125. Ekcc - February 8, 2014

As an emirates flight attendant, First of all I would like to thank the blog writer. Thank god somebody finally put this out there. Not only because I agree with the post, but with how famous it has become I would like to point out few things that not many seem to understand. First being the fact that “they” have no patience whatsoever. On my last jfk flight I came back from my much much needed 3 hrs rest on a 12-13hr flight to find a colleague in tears. Turns out she had an incident with an indian passenger who apparently had his tray on his table for way too long for his liking. The passenger, who had his tray on the floor had kicked the tray when she was about to collect it, When she asked him for the reason for his disrespect he stated that she deserves it for not doing her job. When the argument escalated, people around tried to defuse the problem and pick up the tray to hand it to the cabincrew he stopped them saying that she has to do it, its what she gets paid for and she no better than this. Newsflash A******, although we r going serving you for few hrs, we don’t don’t work for you. Our main role is to save ur a** in case of emergency. And here is the thing you need to understand on long hall flights we get very few hrs rest, which means we r short of crew to do the service. So for example when people start getting there meals in economy almost half the crew go on their break because there are only 9 bunks available and therefore time has to be divided by 3 Break shifts. So with the example mentioned above, there were only 4crew members plus one sfs who can’t leave the galley, to finish the service. So while you we’re complaining about having your tray with you for half an hr too long, half of the aircraft still haven’t gotten their meals. Please stop thinking about your high and mighty self for a sec only and hold on to the tray for a bit more. And please don’t try to give it to us while we r handling food, or leave it in the galley. It is very unhygienic, annoying and dangerous. One time I came back to the galley after I finished a cart after leaving it unattended for less than 15min (because the sfs was on break) and you literally could not see the floor or the counters of the galley because they we’re stacked with trays. I spent a good half an hr trying to make the galley safe again, because if we have a sudden turbulence where do you think those knifes and hot casseroles will
Go? Another issue is the cabin baggage. God, isn’t this our new anthem. Another newsflash, hattracks are first come first serve, *gasp* I know its shocking that with your seat you don’t get an entire hatrack for your too heavy and big bag. There is approximately 1 hatrack per 4 pax. If its already taken, I’m not gonna take out a bag of another passenger just for u to put yours. And please please don’t ask me to put it up for you. If you can’t lift it then my 5′ 2″ little self defiantly can’t. I’m breaking my back enough as it is trying to close those hatracks, and I honestly don’t get paid enough to buy an insurance plan at 22.
Now sorry this has turned into a rant post, but really I’ve been here for almost a year and a half and by now I truly believe that I’m done. Seeing the world at a young age is great, but I’m starting to wonder if its worth it.

fetzthechemist - February 8, 2014

I see continually how poorly some passengers treat you and other crew. That is deplorable. An economy ticket gets you nothing, but the travel. If it were someone in business or first class, then those people ought to expect service since they pay much extra for it.

someone - February 21, 2014

Good to know. It is okay to rant. Sorry you have to go through this. So far I have kept my mouth shut on the flights, minding my own business, but maybe next time I will speak up in support of the crew.

Now, thinking back… I remember seeing this behaviour mostly on Emirates and Singapore Airlines, two of the best airlines in the world. Maybe you are being too kind to ALL passengers? Maybe your company needs to change its policy and treat the bad customers bit more firmly? You need to unionise (if you are not already) and take it up with the management. Maybe you just need to bring up the union card and they will agree to your demands!! In any case, you need the license to be firm with certain passengers. And a video to educate the passengers as mentioned below is a really good idea, I really mean it. Only be sure it is in a lot of languages including the regional Indian languages.

Zac - February 27, 2014

There are no Middle East airlines allowing unions 😦 Emirates invested so much money in India cause the country is so huge. But they didn’t realize that flights full of Indians make the rest of the world wanna run away from them.

PK - February 24, 2014

My wife and I are Eastern European and whatever airline we fly, when the cabin crew does a good job (and they usually do), we WRITE an email to the airline with the flight number and reservation code and let them know it. We also say thank you on the way out of the plane.

Just to show this isn’t racist, I had a bad experience on a Lufthansa flight with an old German woman going insane and kicking the back of my chair when I tried to recline it. I checked and it wasn’t pinching or hurting her. She was just being territorial. I was shocked and put it back up but in hindsight, I should have left it back there and just leaned forward so she couldn’t reach me and laughed my head off. So there are psychos in other cultures. I also noticed another nasty old German woman on another flight continually berating the male steward. He was nothing but polite with her. I later whispered to him I admired his patience and begged for some meat (not pasta) meal. He snuck one to me.

I politely disagree that the FA’s/stewards (I’m from an older generation) are not primarily service workers. Service work is not in any way demeaning. I know the FA’s have regulations to enforce and emergencies to manage but so do others such as cruise ship workers or front desk security guards. That being said, everyone deserves basic respect and appreciation for the job they do and the harder the job is, the more respect they deserve. FA’s have been squeezed hard in the states as of late and sometimes they take it out on passengers. For that reason, I prefer non-American airlines.

126. Crys Louise - February 8, 2014

Dear Koda,

As ex Emirates cabin crew, I am at this moment sitting in Cabin crew accomodation with my Emirates friends reading your post to them.
Everything is true, in fact so much, that 2 of the girls sitting here have resigned after 1 year and the other one, currently a Business Class Crew wants to leave desperately as the obnoxious passengers, primarily of Indian descent literally make the job impossible to do.

The world is a fantastic place to see, but your sanity is worth more!

fetzthechemist - February 8, 2014

Emirates gets it the worst, I think, because Dubai is their hub and that is a convenient transfer point to and from India. I have not noticed this on Qatar Air or the American and European carriers I have used to and from the Gulf countries – United, Lufthansa, KLM, British – are all much more pleasant. In fact, the last time I flew British to Kuwait the crew had the power of an iron hand with unruly or discourteous passengers.

127. Bhalla - February 10, 2014

I am an Indian but totally agree with this blog. I have travelled to France and Italy and always try to avoid other Indians. Somehow with outsourcing scene, our country has seen lots of money and luxury but somehow the manners and ethics have dried out. We make a scene when there is any attack on indian abroad but forget what we do to our foreign guest back here. There have been so many cases to attack, abuse, rapes.. This reflect what a sick and pathetic society we have become after independence. We were very much united and behaved well during British rule.. Sorry to say this but its true.. I often tell my foreign colleagues that Thanks for not coming to India, you are safe now.

We behave like we own everything. Due to this i must say that we are still developing nation and will always remain the same. Its not the land that gets developed but the people who needs to develop themselves to take this nation forward.

128. William - February 19, 2014

This thread will be running for 2-years coming up in a month or so…. holy cow. *Pun* *pun* …. lol.

I’ve heard same stories from several airlines. Crew call in sick or swap out their India flights as soon as the roster is out. Individually never had any issues with Indians. Indian girls are hot, the food is great and generally Indian expats are well-educated and easy to get along with.

In Hong Kong when cell phones first became all the rage you’d have people yelling into their cell phones all over the place. Even during movies. Then theaters put out these humorous previews before theaters showing it was bad form… it seems over time the assholes got the message. It rarely happens now… maybe airlines need to start making inflight movies showing all the no-nos to these people along with the safety videos. Don’t stack your trays in the isle, don’t congregate, keep your kids under control…. oh, and don’t shit in the isle…. yes…. my friend told me ex-Bombay some dude dropped a load in the isle…. one of the FAs stepped in it and tracked doodoo all up and down the isle to the galley. Whole EY section smelled like droppings for the rest of the flight.

Wooooo, glad I wasn’t on THAT flight………..

Tawhid81 - February 19, 2014

Reminds me of pile of lump we found at our University dorm – in 2007, in a bath tub !! Apparently the toilet seats here are not similar to the ones in India, and the guy had to squat to ‘get it going’

google - February 20, 2014

Yaha I like pie

someone - February 21, 2014

Could be from a baby or a child. If an adult sites and shits in the middle of the aisle, I’m sure people will notice. In any case, it is bad.

Rima - February 25, 2014

Indians hatr suppression for hundreds of years under d iron fisted brutal British. Our behaviour is acquired. We have evolved in a manner wierd we have had to fight for every thing. This is d result of over suppression and humiliation that Indians faced in history which has changed us completely. Even if a child is ill treated, his entire life he continues to be a rebel. Here the abuse lasted for generations.

129. onepointfourbillion - February 25, 2014

Get used to it, between us Indians and the Chinese, we outnumber you 2 is to 1 and growing. We are the borg and you will be assimilated!

fetzthechemist - February 25, 2014

Indians and Chinese are a plurality, Each is a the big group but each less than a majority of all the people. You may be right about the future and it will be a hell for everyone, Indians and Chinese, too. Both cultures have a value system where it is hook-or-crook, where if you are not caught then you are not breaking the rules or the law. Just look at the horrendous environmental issues created in both countries because of lax laws and corruption of governments. In both, 5% to 10% of the people are doing very well, but the vast majority are living in abject poverty. Indian is especially guilty since it has done nothing to curb its population and while a hundred million flourish, many times that many live by eating the garbage put out by those few.

130. Amodeus - March 2, 2014

Just my 2 cents. I am originally from India but grew up between the UK and India and have been in North America for about 14 years. Having lived through similar experiences not only in airplanes but in other areas as well I put it down to a number of things.
1. Middle class Indians and above gain a huge sense of entitlement. In India it is very easy to fine people beneath you no matter what rung of the societal ladder you are on. This conditions people to actually think that they are better than somebody who is not as wealthy or educated than them. Therefore a flight attendant is beneath me as I have paid to get him or her to serve me is the attitude that Indians board a plane. Due to the caste and class system, hierarchy matters in a social setting.
Also it is very easy for Indians to get away with abusing people who are lower on the societal ladder than them.
2. Ethics are low. Indians do not usually grow up learning ethics and even if they do they are not practiced. Somehow or the other I have to get my way is the attitude.
3. Indians are self-centered and are conditioned to think about themselves first. On a plane Indians forget that the objective of all the people on that plane is to get to a destination safely and securely. On the contrary Indians believe that since I have paid for this flight, the objective of this ride is to get treated like royalty. You will find many Indians complain about the looks of flight attendants and will make comments like “Oh! I paid so much for the flight so I deserved to look at better looking flight attendants!” Indians need to realize that the days of glamour attached to flying has gone.
Indians think about their convenience first. Indians will not think of a group.
4. Indians will mistake passing exams for being educated. In India the emphasis in schools is to score the most number of marks and pass exams to get into schools or colleges. Whether or not they know how to apply what they have learned in the real world is of little relevance. To further this, getting a higher education is perceived as their ticket of being upwardly mobile in society. Ask an educated Indian to hold a conversation in English with equally educated Americans or Europeans and Indians will not be able utter a single sentence.

5. Indians like to engage in pointless nostalgia so that they feel better than people from other countries. Point that elicit this pointless nostalgia is things like how many engineers, doctors etc it produces. How it has a space program, it has this and that. India also has the most number of poor people, India also has the largest population with toilets, India also has highest rates of infanticides and women abuse. Why don’t Indians abroad boast about those statistics.

fetzthechemist - March 2, 2014

One thing I have observed in instructing the weeklong short courses (the reason I travel to Dubai) is that most Indian participants/ students will try to impress the others by asking insightful questions or more often making statements to show their high knowledge. Invariably this escalates to the point that they try to show they know more than me and there is no way they do (I have well over 30 years experience and a world-class reputation in many of the topics I instruct – my CV is exceedingly long without any efforts at padding it). Additionally, this thing about marks is true. The little quiz at the end of the course, often 15 to 20 true-false or multiple choice questions that are not made to be very difficult, are taken by the Indians as if it were the entrance exam for Oxford.

131. Amodeus - March 2, 2014

You are right. In every kind of social situation, be it classroom or workplace, Indians will try to gain some kind of upper hand or at least the notion that they are in some way better, than the others. Their objective is prove that they are not the opposite i.e unintelligent, uneducated etc. However what happens is that they end up being perceived as ill-mannered and uncouth.

132. Sensitive - March 6, 2014

In my humble opinion, the majority of these negative observations would apply to Hindu, Jain or Sikh Indians from the Northern states of India. I have found that people from the far south of India and Muslim Indians from anywhere in India to be generally better behaved and more cultivated.

Note : I fit into none of these categories.

133. srivaree - March 13, 2014

After reading through the first write-up and the following comments, I’m wondering if Indians are not well behaved, uncivilized, uncultured, unhygienic etc etc why not totally ban them from flying in that particular airline. Indians would be more than happy to fly in airlines meant only for them than put up with constant stares, perceptions and attitude of racists fellow travelers

When the airlines allow one laptop bag + one 7kg carry on for every passenger on board there should be place in the overhead cabin for every single passenger’s luggage. I’ve flown within US and have always found the crew very accommodating in stowing the bags that don’t fit in. In fact they announce right before boarding that passengers have option of checking in the carry-on at the gate. It is the crew’s job to make sure all passengers are comfortably boarded without hassles. They take pride in saying that they are on board to save our “a**” well they better make sure we’ve our “a**” seated comfortably

The attitude of the crew, especially the air hostess is sometimes questionable. If she’s over worked or has had a long day, she should not take it out on the passengers. Off late these air hostess are in the wrong news for smuggling drugs, gold etc etc due to the liberty they enjoy at airports. Can we generalize these air hostess across all the other air hostesses? If not, then how can we generalize across Indians all over. Can I take the comments of the Emirates flight attendant in this blog and generalize that is what Emirates feels about Indians?

The same thought process can be thought for Germans, French, Britons, Americans, Arabs, Chinese and rest of the nationals. There are lot of bad publicity available for all these folks on the way they travel, how they live and their lifestyles. Can we judge a whole country by the behavior of few? If we were to generalize we would have hundreds of blogs on each of these people. Every dis-satisfied air traveler will write-up hundreds of pages on their perceptions of fellow travelers!

I’ve flown my share of flights, which is mostly all and find that Lufthansa crew is the most well behaved one. They respect every passenger and make sure the flight is comfortable. After first few years of travel on other airlines, I’ve narrowed it down to Lufthansa for all long haul flights and absolutely love the way they treat people. No reservations at all in their attitude

Since the thread was started with an Emirates flight,
I recently read that “India’s civil aviation ministry is set to consider a demand by Emirates Airline and Flydubai for an additional 20,000 seats per week, a one third increase from the 54,200 seats that the Dubai-based carriers already have, Business Standard has reported”. If Emirates crew is having so many issues with Indians, they should stop all flights to India or only fly non-indians. I’m sure Indians have other airlines and modes of transportation to get to their destinations! If not anything they’ll invent their own flying carpet and get around! Believe me, Indians can do it……

The first write-up is that of a racist. I don’t care how great this person’s CV is or how many gold miles are collected. It looks like all the education, experience and flying has got this person no where intellectually. Not sure how much knowledge this person shares with students and what they gain from it

This person has an opinion of every aspect of Indian lifestyle including their population, food habits, study habits and has provided insights. Must definitely have a personal grudge against them for taking his job or maybe has an Indian boss or someway related to an Indian who’s better than him in all aspects! Mr. J, I guess…..LOL

fetzthechemist - March 13, 2014

I have no grudge against Indians, except for that portion of them who are a boorish bother during my airplane flights. I have worked with Indians, even co-authored a few published papers with some. But as far as envy, there are few chemists in all of Indian who have the credentials and accomplishments that I have (the same can be said of chemists from Europe or the US). That some Indians behave badly is not my point, rather it is the degree that they do these things and the proportion of Indians seems to be much higher than other nationalities.

134. N.R.Ramapriya - March 13, 2014

Childern are Like God and they are innocent which ever part of the Globe you go. It is unfortunate this man has shown aspersions even on the childern. Most arrogant and disguisting and uncultured comment…

fetzthechemist - March 13, 2014

Childred may be extra special in almost all cultures, but to treat them as gods without expectations or limits is not. On planes,Indian children run up and down the aisles at full speed, running into crew and passengers. A plane is not a playground. It is 400 people in a tightly confined area. A chid can learn behaviours and acceptable decorum. Do Indians let their children behave this way within their temples?

srivaree - March 17, 2014

@fetzthechemist – we have some of the biggest temples in the world and yes, of course our children run around them. If our children are quite, well-behaved and do as they are told, we would consider them somewhat retarded or lacking social skills. Our children did not have to worry of improper touch from a stranger, worry about playing only in kids area due to lack of safety outside it, eat only at chucky cheese or such kid friendly eat outs, have friends who only live a mile across and not nearby. Our children mostly have friends right next door and hence run out to play with them on streets, eat outside in sometimes not so great places, thanks to their much better immunity for diseases and have lesser child abusers to worry about. All this put together make our children the way they are. Things are changing and you do find some children tuned to the acceptable behavior and decorum!

I was on an AA flight few years back where a non-Indian, American mom let her 6 – 9 month old infant crawl its way from the entrance to the end of plane while she and other passengers were walking behind it. When the child finally finished everyone clapped! I bet if an Indian mom would have done this, we would have the rest of non-Indian passengers write a whole blog about our culture, habits etc.etc. Similarly on a New Jersey to LA flight we had a bunch of non-Indian kids going to Disney Land who made the 5 hour flight a living hell for those seated around them

Just Google for “rude American kids” and you’ll find many blogs justifying, explaining the reason for such behavior. Some people feel that their views are “world views”. Business travelers and airline attendants always complain about the lack of respect passengers have for fellow travelers. It’s impossible for savvy, frequent business travelers or infrequent leisure passengers to get along. Business travelers are the most annoying ones. They feel they have earned the right to be first in line, first for attention, first for overhead space and first to complain. One experiment I would like to do is let the person travel alone first class on company cash and let the same person travel with family on personal cash. If you keep all other situations same between the two flights I bet you’ll get one writing the initial piece you wrote and the other defending the same. You can guess what each one will write!!!

tom - June 24, 2014

No, because as such most visit temple out of fear and/or in want of something sans sacred deserving veneration towards temple or the god.
and for that matter, one of the temple has pushers ( like those boxers at pub) to hustle sheep like human from one corner to other- one simply cant seize the moment there!!!

135. fetzthechemist - March 17, 2014

Yes, American parents who are in their 20s and 30s have mostly adopted the same attitudes – that their child(ren) are the center of everyone’s world, the next Einstein, the next superstar athlete or entertainer. But if I am out in public or on a plane, a parent still knows that if the child runs full-speed into me that an apology is to be given.

At some point, children must learn how to behave in the adult world. Some nations, like India, wait until children are teens or almost so. Is that better than earlier? It is different than in Europe or the US, but decorum and politeness are much more widespread among Europeans and Americans. It is a cultural choice. This goes back to when cultures mix, like on plane flights. I give Indians some accomodating, but when their comfort comes at my discomfort, there must be a boundary.

Indian may be wonderful for children. But once people are adults, especially for women, India has little to be proud of.

srivaree - March 23, 2014

fetzthechemist, after seeing “12 years a Slave” can I assume all white Americans were proud slave owners and the present day whites are from the same proud lineage or can I read the news about racism against the colored (africans, mexicans etc) in America and generalize that these folks are still part of the slave tradition only that since the world is watching Americans are behaving! Or can I watch the “life is beautiful” or other world war II movies and assume the behavior of Europeans now would be same as what it was then! You’re reading or watching what CNN shows you and assume you know all about Indians. You did not have the courage to confront the so called “bad behavior” and get the apology you think you deserved. Neither did you have the patience to teach the “bad behavior” kids to behave. I’m sure if the kids were in the age of understanding good behavior from bad behavior, they would have listened to you. If the kids were toddlers or pre-schoolers, I’m sure irrespective of which country they were from they would have behaved the same way, unless there was a threat of punishment or some form of bribery (chololates, games etc) involved. Everyone is a good judge of others behavior as they’re good lawyers of their own behaviors!

fetzthechemist - March 24, 2014

These are irrelevancies of generations ago. Has the world changed? In that era, most Indians would not be allowed to travel by ship to other nations. Those were very racist times, but all cultures were steeped in this. In India, dark-skinned Tamils were looked down upon very severely by lighter-skinned Bengalis or Punjabis. The behaviours I see are current and recurring, not just an isolated incident by one person on one flight.

srivaree - March 24, 2014

I’m done! I’ve spent enough time and thoughts on this blog. Like few badly behaving Indians, some folks don’t get the point. All the best fetzthechemist, flyboy and rest of racists on your crusade against rude, badly behaving Indians. Godspeed and hope someday you get to fly in a commercial airline towards East without any Indians in it. I thank you for now I carry an impression on Chemists in the US and flight attendants of middle eastern airlines just like you carry your impression of Indians

crystal - March 25, 2014

Dear srivaree,

Please understand that many of these comments are completely and 100% true. Does it mean however that every single Indian is this way on a flight?!!?!?1 Absolutely NOT!!
However, please understand that as an ex Cabin Crew myself, and one who’s friends still are crew with Emirates (also whom are Indian), there is not a single flight where there is not a complaint of how rude the Indian passenger were to crew.

Of course, considering Emirates largest pax segment is individuals from Eastern Asian descent, that does not erase the sheer fact that for the large majority, even those who have lived abroad; they are inexcusable horrible. plain HORRIBLE to crew!!!

I am sorry you do not like what is being said and you find if offensive. Do not go low balling and calling people racist and rude names because you do not like what your reading. I am aware that many Indians as well, have extremely “racist’ or “prejudicial” opinions of other cultures, so that attack does not serve anyone well.

This entire blog is simply about the bad behaviors many have observed while flying and sadly most are from Indians. Of course, many other ethnic groups I am sure are guilty of the same (Although I did not witness it during my flying experience) however, sadly predominately Indian individuals, not Pakistani or Bangledashi, etc are causing many crew to go crazy or breakdown on these flights due to how rude and obnoxious they can be.
Help me to understand why!?!?!?!?

Please know that your CREW love to help and assist you! Especially Emirates, as we are trained very hard and long to ensure that you have the best flying experience! We even take a separate course to ensure that our Indian Pax have the ultimate flying experience with Emirates!
Just know that we are human, and being crew does not liken us to servants or your maid or even babysitter ok?

This blog is simply about awareness and perhaps if or when you fly next and you see anyone, Indian or not being rude to a Crew, maybe you can intervene and let them know people are watching and just because you are 36000 ft in the air does NOT give you the right to become a total A*SHOLE!

Thank-you.

fetzthechemist - April 5, 2014

I just got back from another f these trips. About the same situations, but one regarding children who are allowed by their parents to do anything. Entering the Dubai security area where they check passports, an Indian woman had 3 children who looked to be about ages 3 5 and 7 or 8. They were screaming and running around all over. Once they ran into the screening area almost to the metal detectors, but a soldier told them to stop. He walked back with the children to the woman, gave her a dirty look and went back to his post by the desks. The children started up again and an around. The bumped into a different one of the airport people, a man in dishdasha (the white Arabian robe). The soldier came ovr, tld the woman to follow him, with her children and they were led to an office. I do not know what happened, but obviously her passage to get onto the airplane was going to be very slow.

PolishKnight - April 6, 2014

srivaree, I can understand your anger when someone writes “India has little to be proud of” because it takes the discussion out of context for airplane behavior into generic judgements of culture.

All that said, we have to ponder how people of different lands behave on planes and in tourist situations due to their general culture and how they handle the criticism. Americans are used to being criticized (there’s even a phrase for it: “Ugly American”) and most here would accept your criticism with a simple stoicism. Yes, Americans are generally loud compared to many other cultures, for example. Not all Americans are like that, but certainly it’s something I took away from my travels abroad and considered in my daily interactions in the states afterwards. Talk slowly and more softly, and see if people pay attention better. Sadly, sometimes they don’t. There’s perhaps a reason why Americans talk loud. It works for many of them.

With all that considered, Indians seem to suffer from a strong sense of national pride compared with a lack of shame. It’s an interesting and sometimes amusing combination. It’s not uncommon to see Indians pride themselves upon being frugal and ruthless about saving money even to the point of rudeness and inconsideration for others (bad tippers), but then when waiters are slow to serve Indians, they gripe about “racism.”

A final observation (if you’re still following), I’ll criticize fetz’s remark about India being bad “especially for women”. Foreigners often remark that American women are amazingly spoiled and unfeminine. America has less to be proud of as time goes on sadly.

fetzthechemist - April 6, 2014

I was refering to the many reports of gang rapes, gropings, and other crimes against women. The US is no paradise, but women are not as off the map in terms of many situations. American women can be educated, in a career and unmarried at thirty.

136. Flyboy - March 23, 2014

I’m a flight attendant here in the Middle East and my first hand experience of Indians who travel to and from the USA has lead me to almost a fear of dealing with any Indians. On board they are rude, obnoxious, loud, verbally aggressive, selfish and so uncouth. After 6 flights a month to and from Chicago or New York for the last two years, I have so many examples of these people and their deplorable attitude towards other human beings.

I have had flights with almost 350 people aboard and over 250 special meals (Asian Veg or Hindu), and even though I am all for dietary requirements such as vegetarian or diabetic meals, no one seems to realize that Asian Veg is a mere taste preference – there’s always a vegetarian choice available on the menu.

Indians continually as for water, and drink only half of it. Then 20 minutes later will as for more. They cannot understand requests related to their safety (seatbelt sign and all). They travel with children and expect the airline to provide everything for them – milk, baby food, diapers, etc. I rarely ever hear please or thank you. I have been asked multiple times where the bathroom is for American passport holders. I am American and have been told a few times that I speak English terribly – despite the incorrect pronunciation by Indians of the words “water” and “vegetarian”. In Business Class during a breakfast service an Indian man took a picture of his food and complained his toast was not cut in a straight line.

What takes the cake though is what happened not so long ago on one of my flights. A Pakistani man collapsed during the flight, and we diverted to a European city. He died not long after landing. A flight attendant’s job is to keep people safe and keep the aircraft safe, and of course we were under a lot of stress and pressure trying the save the gentleman’s life. The ambulance crew came aboard when we landed but was unable to revive him. For rest reasons, we could not continue the flight so the crew and passengers all spent the night in a hotel and we continued the next day. One passenger, upon boarding, complained that there were ambulance crew helping the sick man and the flight attendants should have been looking after the passengers as he had requested tea and never got it. Someone died, and this guy was asking for tea. I was disgusted.

Indian passengers have such a horrible reputation and it is not unfounded or racist. In fact, I can’t count the times I and my colleagues have been accused of being racist towards Indians over stupid, petty, trivial things such as a delay in service due to turbulence or because we ran out of a particular meal.

And if anyone out there thinks I’m being dramatic or racist or something like that, look at the comments on this post. There are so many. It’s high time Indians passengers started behaving like civilized people.

fetzthechemist - March 23, 2014

I think I mentioned this before, but on one of my flights a man had a heart attack. The crew dealt with it and before landing made several announcements in English, Arabic, and Hindi that the ambulance crew had to come on board and to remain seated until the crew said it was OK to get overhead bags and deplane. The horde of Indians did not do that. I stood up and yelled at the ones in my section that there was a medical emergency and they were supposed to remain seated. They were totally clueless at what was going on.

srivaree - March 24, 2014

Flyboy, which airline do you work for? This is just to make sure I never fly in an airline that employs people with your views.Maybe if you had the guts, you should publish this info on your airline website. If flight attendants have so much problem with Indians why not set a separate set of guidelines on their website for Indians. If serving water every half hour, assisting travelers with infants are not part of your job profile, suggest looking for a job where you don’t have to do that. How can you run out of a particular meal when its already accounted for? The person has already mentioned the type of food they need while booking the ticket. Why give so many options for meals when you don’t intend to serve them? I believe the customer has paid for the water, food and other services on board. I bet you don’t mention that only one glass of water is allowed every hour and food of your choice may or may not be available when booking the tickets. Airlines advertise first class as next to perfection and if the cabin attendant is sloppy, the airline is losing its face! The biggest problem Indians have is that they think flight attendant is there to help them or assist them. They should realize that there are limitations to the flight attendant and they’re on board only to save them in case of emergencies, not to help them stow their luggage, serve water, serve the food they paid for. The ticket rate they paid for infants is to just to annoy the fellow passengers while the infant sits on lap. I’ve had my share of travel over the past 10 years and somehow find that only the crew of middle east airlines flights are the most stressed. They cannot differentiate between Indian, Pakistani, Bangladeshi, Iraqi, Irani, etc etc and end up generalizing all as Indians! They’re on board for a quick buck considering the qualifications they have and assume they’re on board to “save” passengers. I think we’re watching too many “hijack” related movies and see the flight attendant as someone who can help you. The comments in these blogs by flight attendants really show their true colors. Fortunately I’ve flown on good airlines with good flight attendants mainly Lufthansa and American Airlines where the flight attendants set the right expectation and are very courteous!

flyguy - March 24, 2014

If you read what I wrote correctly, you’d realise that by “running out of meals” I meant the ones that were provided outside the “special meals”, ergo, the meals listed on the menu. We do not have a limitless supply of everything.

“If serving water every half hour, assisting travelers with infants are not part of your job profile, suggest looking for a job where you don’t have to do that. ” Again, you missed the point. I don’t mind doing these things for people, but Indians tend to give back a cup of water unfinished only to ask for another a short while later. Why? Why waste that water? And I gladly assist infants but am flabbergasted at the attitude of parents who travel unprepared. It’s really not a reflection on me or even an issue for me; I’m just concerned for the child whose parents believe it’s ok to board a very long flight with hardly any supplies such as diapers, formula, baby food, etc. We have a very small, limited supply of such items on board.

And answer me this: you agree that the gentleman should have complained over toast not in a straight line? Do you also agree with the gentleman who complained about his tea, or lack thereof?

Judging from your run on sentences, your syntax errors and your general poor writing style, I assume you, too, are in a position to join an airline as a flight attendant, “considering the qualifications” you must have.

I have a Bachelor’s Degree in Aviation Science with a minor in Air Safety, and a Pilot’s License, as well as speaking 3 languages fluently and a host of other skills I have developed during my career. Don’t try to belittle me or my colleagues from an education standpoint; most crew are well-educated.

I can’t really speak for everyone, but I can tell the difference between Indians, Pakistanis and Bangladeshis. The latter two are much more well mannered, say please and thank you, and actually smile from time to time. In fact, some of the more pleasurable flights I have done have been to Karachi, Dhaka, Chittagong and Islamabad. Very few crew will call sick for those flights. Delhi, Madras, Trivandrum, Mumbai – those cities are another story.

fetzthechemist - March 24, 2014

I had intended to reply to point some of the misstatements. I have seen these unprepared parents/ mothers. No diapers, no baby foods of any sort and on a 15 hour trip. I have also see Indians rant and rave because they could not have the special vegetarian meal, which they had not ordered beforehand. Those are special meals, and a passenger is at fault for not ordering one – and if the traveler did not make arrangements then the regular vegetarian meal ought to suffice. Those Indians come across as either clueless or spoiled.

srivaree - March 24, 2014

Flyboy, I’m not trying to belittle anyone’s education. I’m generalizing just as you’re generalizing stuff about Indians. You may be qualified but that does not mean every flight attendant is as qualified. The biggest virtue of any education is humility. If you have not learnt that then there is no point of any education even if you’re a PhD. I’m not defending the bad behaving Indians. Yes, there are lot of Indians that fit in that category. But believe me, rest of the world is no better either. There are bad behaving Americans, British, Europeans etc etc. You don’t know the story behind each person on a given flight. Just as flight attendants, business travelers and the other stressed out people on board Indians too are stressed. Some maybe first time fliers, some may be showing superiority, some may have come from a not so social background and so on. I’m sure this description fits most of the people from other cultures too. A learned, well educated man would try to put himself in the others shoes before commenting. Guess that is too much to expect from you folks! I’m sure if it was up to you, you would have blamed the Indians for the death on board or any emergency situation on board. Indians are responsible for delayed flights, Indians are the reason for everything wrong with the airline industry. Thankfully its not up to you. You will continue to go on your flights putting up a two faced personality smiling outward and frowning inward. All people are created equal. On the inside, people of different races are all the same. A person’s skin color has nothing to do with what kind of person he or she will become or what choices he or she will make. Racism has existed for hundreds of years and will exist for hundreds more. You have already chosen to be a part of it. I’m only trying to help you come out of it!

fetzthechemist - March 24, 2014

Yes, everyone is equal at birth. But societies vary and define differences. My original point emphasized that there are bad behaviours among many types of passengers, but Indians are a disproportionately larger fraction. Something about Indian society and culture creates this. Whether it is the crowding, the poverty, the competitiveness, the attitudes towards family and race, the newness of interacting with the rest of the world, many Indians are unprepared to interact well with others.

srivaree - March 24, 2014

@Flyboy…I can speak for myself, if not my countrymen. I’ve traveled to the US many times, mostly on Lufthansa. I’ve traveled with my 9 month old infant two years back and we have made sure we carry all that is necessary for our little one. We did not depend on the airline except for the bassinet and hot milk. Now I’ve two kids and I travel often with them. We make sure we rely the least on airline for our essentials. We also make sure none of the co-passengers are affected and teach our kids right from wrong. I’ve treated my cabin attendants with respect and I see the same from their side.But from your comments and other middle eastern airline attendant comments I’m sure me or my family will never fly on a middle eastern airline thanks to your thoughts!
@fetzthechemist….We Indians are fast learning on the ways of the world. Its easy for folks in the US where almost everyone is an immigrant from the remaining countries, Indians rarely meet people from so many various cultures in one place. We’re the frogs who are getting out of the well on our way to meet other frogs already out of their well. But one thing is for sure, an Indian is 100% Indian. The Indian crowd is mostly Indian crowd born in India, to an Indian lineage.Unlike some folks in other countries who are 10% English, 10% Irish, 10% French,10% Mexican, 10% Chinese,50% American (by birth only) and so on. If some Indians want to become racists they’re not sure which race they should go after, LOL!

flyguy - March 24, 2014

Read again what I wrote. I did not say that the entire one-and-a-quarter billion Indian people are all the same. I made a point of writing my comments and opinions in a way as to clarify that I refer only to those Indian passengers who travel between the Middle East and the USA.

The fact that you suggest that I would despicably blame other passengers for a death on board, or indeed any other “emergency”, shows that I am dealing with someone without scruples, without respect, and without a valid point to discuss.

I never mentioned anything about skin colour, as you chose to. And unless you have seen me during the course of my duties, you cannot say that I put up a two-faced personality.

In my near decade of experience I have encountered many instances where people have mistreated others, whether it be crew or passengers. But I stand by what I say and what I have experienced: Indian passengers that I encounter between the Middle East and the USA are by far the most difficult, ill-mannered and rude group I have ever flown with. My colleagues at my own airline will say the same. Some have been left in tears by the mistreatment they dealt with. I have had similar discussions with crew from an Asian airline telling the same story about their flights from their part of the world to the western coast of the USA. If you want to make a difference, if you want to help someone “come out” of something, talk to your countrymen, remind them that everyone is indeed created equally, and tell them when they travel to show respect to their fellow passengers and their crew. After all, aren’t we all the same? Don’t we all deserve the same treatment?

137. prejee - March 31, 2014

Dear blogger,

Do not judge just b’cse you saw some old generation Indians or like minded people behave in a way you thought was inappropriate. We are certainly different and that’s y most of the western people turn to eastern cultures. We are new to the so called 1st f world standards and it may take some time for us to teach people like you the organic/natural way of living.

I can only laugh at you and like minded idiots who cannot respect/understand others. So mean. In fact we have our hands on the very technology you are using to write such blogs.

Western f ing lifestyles are very new to us. Most of our people are probably flying for the first time. It may be a good gesture if you could spend some of you judging time to give them some gyan about flying courtesy.

138. Mac JT - April 3, 2014

You should start finding ways to monetize from the traffic to this site.
After all if this reaches Indian shores , thats a billion odd views, translates to a lot of money!
Anyways I wanted to post to say you can expect more complaints now that Emirates has found the DFW- DXB route so profitable that they’ve upped the plane to a 380. It can handle 500 odd whiny, complaining, Indian passengers.
More Indian whines translates to more stewards complaining translates to more traffic to your site.

139. Matthew - April 9, 2014

i live in a pakistani/indian/bangladesh neighborhood in brooklyn new york. these people have no consideration for anyone or anything. they litter everywhere. huge popcorn buckets, big gulp paper cups, newspapers. they crap feces on the sidewalk. they have no consideration for anything or anyone. it ruins the neighborhood. its like they all just got off the boat and have no consciousness of sanitation, health or others. im accustomed to living in one of the cleanest neighborhoods with green lawns and trees draping every street. it would be an eyesore to see a gum wrapper o the street where im from. these people are filthy and disgusting.

clebmisc - June 4, 2014

Move, if the place is so filthy and disgusting.

140. Ustad - April 23, 2014

Did someone say indians have a higher level of hygiene than others? LOL HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!! Are you kidding? The only place dirtier than India on this entire planet is Liberia! Please google- dirty India, then look at the pictures.

And to those who are mentioning movies about slavery as a rebuttal to Indian bad habits, please stop. I realize that the average IQ of india is about 75, but you surely can discern between a film and real life experience shared by millions of people. And besides, what the hell does slavery propaganda have to do with Indians behaving badly anyway? I see no connection.

141. Nikky - April 25, 2014

We do take bath twice a day and go for prayers.that is in Hindu culture. We are innocent vegetarians.we dont eat other animals and see god in every other living thing.please stop bashing us

142. Nikky - April 25, 2014

and how come my previous comments were not visible ? this shows how authentic your experiences were

fetzthechemist - April 25, 2014

As with all blogs on WordPress (and in most other forums) there is an approval function letting me avoid spam and blatant flaming (which I try to avoid doing, including many posts that veer away from the original topic or are personal attacks – which some of yours are).

143. fetzthechemist - April 25, 2014

Is your point that being vegetarians and treating animals well highlight why Indians do not do the same in courtesy to others?

144. Mac JT - April 25, 2014

Let’s see Fetzthechemist can generalize the behavior of Indians based on his sample size of a plane at a time. But when others generalize the behavior of Westerners based on their sample size , all of a sudden the sample isn’t large enough to merit said generalization.
LOL!

Typical Western hypocrisy.

BUT the fact remains, many , many Indians are uncouth,loud and pretty unhygienic(sorry just throwing 2-3 mugs of water on your body and calling it a “bath” doesn’t make it so).

Okay so the blog wants to highlight it, expose it and tell everybody how stinky, loud, uncivilized and disgusting Indians are on planes.

Point taken by many.

Answering a criticism by pointing out to what someone else does or did is stupid and you come across as silly proving the blogger’s point.

Indians are no saints , someone talked about slavery etc… Indians have no leg to stand on with the caste system, the inhumane treatment of women, the rife nepotism. Why do you talk about how great India is when you’re here in the US, why dont you go back and make it even greater then?

fetzthechemist - April 25, 2014

I generalize from around 50 flights to or from Dubai compared to my even more other flights to and frommany places. Others reiterate and those are independent observations. It is not the sample size, but the sample itself. I compare behavior on these flights and see that a higher occurrence of bad behavior occurs and that is due to and correlated to the larger proportion of Indians who behave that way. The counterpoints against westerners or other nationality have not chosen examples that are anything more than pointing behaviours of small numbers of individuals on other flights. If these incidents on flights with Indians were once here or once there, one or two or none per flight, it would be comparable. But it is many more than one or two and on each and every flight. (If you want to talk statistics, pleas be aware that I have instructed a full-semester university-level course in it.)

Mac JT - April 25, 2014

Touched a nerve did I?

Again ill repeat for your edification, it IS a sample size, that being of “Indians traveling by air of a particular age group” against the entire Indian population.

“Indians traveling by air of a particular age group” being the sample and your 50 or so plane rides being the sample size.
You made the generalization of grouping this against the entire Indian population.

Of course I can build a sample size of Westerners under similar observances perhaps not in air travel but still I can deduce a trend based on my experiences should I wish to.

Your claim of being a statistician is a red herring and has nothing to do with the argument, in anycase I can claim to have a superior education in formal statistics whereby trumping your mere “instruction of a full-semester unversity-level course” should I wish to.

Neither will enhance your argument.

You want to play generalizations based on our respective sample sizes, let’s play.

decastigator - August 8, 2014

I am not sure caste system/slavery etc are relevant here, but I would respond to them if it keeps on coming up. See my earlier post, I am not a proponent of caste system, but just miffed that it is mentioned every-time when India comes up,Here are the differences between slavery and caste system:
0> In slavery you displace people from their home continents using ships packed like cattle. In caste system, people live apart from each other in their home country and are not packed like cattle.
1>In slavery you own someone, in caste system you tell someone what he can or cannot do.
2> In slavery you can split families to sell people away from it, in caste system you cannot.
3> In slavery, you can flog someone legally, in caste system you cannot flog someone legally.
4> De facto slavery ended in 1964, de jure caste system ended in 1950, de facto caste system reversed its course in a “reverse caste system”.

Should I go on?
>>Why do you talk about how great India is when you’re here in the US, why dont you go back and make it even greater then?

This has the undercurrents that US is “our” land the east-indians are just coming here for economic reasons. Unless you are a native-american, this argument does not hold.

145. fetzthechemist - April 25, 2014

You redefine the overall universe for sampling without validity.I never blogged about all Indians or the whole population of India. I wrote of Indians travelling on planes, so a sampling of 50 different and similar occurrences is valid. Why are Indians so self-conscious that anything said against any Indian is said against each and everyone not just in the nation, but anywhere they now work or reside? Your credentials are of little concern tome. You obviously are driven by nationalistic passions rather than by anything remotely resembling an astute mind.

Mac JT - April 25, 2014

Are you for real??
I have to laugh, did you even READ my post? I have castigated Indians and their behavior!
Read and read again. Then read ALL my other posts where I eviscerate their attitudes.
Now AFTER reading that do you still claim I am nationalistic if so which country?
Heck I’m not even Indian!!
Your deduction skills are even worse than your statistical skills!

When you say “based on my travels blah blah blah” and “others blah blah blah _Indians_ are the most blah blah blah… you have made a generalization against the entire population.

If you didn’t mean to you better improve your English writing skills as the onus is on the writer NOT the reader to interpret what was written.

But, I will generalize and say that your writing falls in line with my observation that Americans in general are poor spellers and possess an inferior command of the English language, allegedly their native language.

crystal - April 27, 2014

hahahahahaa omg, now its a spelling bee

ok smarty pants….how pathetic…the blog is people commenting on the nightmare travel with indians..
nothing more…who cares how one spells??

and why does every indian want to live in america or canada?
ask yourself that!?!!?

they cannot stand there own damn country and want the opportunity to live in a normal environment….India is chaos at its worst….

While there is a beauty in that…for about 1 hour…be serious!~
not so defensive.|!!!

146. m.george - April 27, 2014

Sorry but you must have some idea that, there are other cultures or nationalities which also get accused of everything that you have pinned on Indians in particular – whether it’s unruly kids, the inability to queue properly etc.

Sometimes, it’s Egyptians, Sudanese or Nigerians who get slapped with such generalizations or blanket statements. Or at other times, it could be Palestinians, East Europeans or Somalis.

On the other hand, a lot of British and East European expatriates who live outside their native countries – particularly expatriates in Arab Islamic societies – are constantly being mentioned in the newspapers for unruly behaviour, assaults, tasteless attire, skimpy clothing, miserly ways, etc etc. And quite a few of them don’t shower in the morning even if they spray on perfume to mask their lack of hygiene.

Ask anyone who took a morning shower and then ended up in an elevator full of European, Russian, East European or British tourists in India or Arab countries. By the way, many of those package tour travellers are not big on modest clothing and they often smell like onions in brine (underarms) or burning leaves.

About Hindus being served their special request meals ahead of other passengers: I was told it’s because it’s just more convenient for the cabin crew – since these vegetarian passengers are usually in a minority on board.

It’s nothing to do with your not being a Hindu, and I am saying that as a non-Hindu, by the way.

And about special treatment for some nationalities, you should one day visit the MENA regions and see how White expatriates and tourists – whether British, European or North American – get the highest salaries and many special privileges even if they have low qualifications, no respect for the local customs or culture, and little personal cleanliness.

fetzthechemist - April 27, 2014

You misinterpret my comment about the special meals. I do not care about that. I. was mentioning that these people often get upset and even put their trays in the aisles because they expect the crew to clean away their trays instead of feeding the other passengers. They harange the crew through selfishness.

147. Punjabi Indian - April 29, 2014

I am an Indian and I totally agree with this article. This holds true for India and Indian behavior, but it doesnt hold true for Punjabis. Indians from Punjab are the most civilized and well-mannered people.

goodppl - June 5, 2014

Are u a indian, shame on u. Yes their might be some people over here, how can you point out to indians all togather. This shows u dont have capacity to analysis. Still u r grown.

148. Indians?? Which Indian - May 5, 2014

A nice blog where the comments are longer than the blog itself. To the author of this blog, I apologize on behalf of any Indians that may have caused you discomfort but I’m sure that giving a heading like “A plane full of Indians behaving badly” will bring about a lot of racial debate. Having said that you need to know that India is a country that is extremely divided (which is not a good thing I know). States have different languages, cultures, food, appropriate social behavior standards and their perceptions of what is right and wrong also differs from State to State unlike most countries in the world. Not to mention all the Hindus, Muslims and Christians along with the religious faiths that further affect people’s perception. As a result grouping together ALL these people as “Indians” and remarking on their poor behavior and hygiene standards in planes is just plain ignorant. Do you know where these Indians are from? Kerala? Punjab? Delhi? Bihar? Goa? All these states produce different cultural personalities. It’s not as easy as saying “Oh all these Americans” or ” All these British Folk”… since these countries have a common culture within itself (Well America doesn’t have a ‘culture’ per say) and a common language so its easy to distinguish.
Please think before you post such stuff again as you clearly wanted to ‘vent some steam’ on a nation that you do not know much about

JustAnotherGuy - May 27, 2014

As an Indian, I agree with your basic contention. But Indian is a very generic term. Don’t tell me India is so divided that the word Indian has no meaning at all. Punjab, Andhra or Assam-the outside world is not aware of the difference. While you can tell them apart by their accent, food habit or behaviour, an American cannot. If a foreigner gets mugged by a gang of Biharis he/she will identify them as Indian, absent any other information. Tell me something. What do Indians mean when they say Western? Canadian, Italian, Scandanavian, British? You know these are wildly different cultures and taken together, West is a lot more diverse than India. Yet, we use the word, sometimes to mean anything foreign. I can tell apart the east coast accent, southern Texan accent and the Canadian accent of the pacific northwest, but to most people outside north America, it is American accent. It all depends on what distance you are seeing from.

149. Sid - May 6, 2014

Hello there,
I am Indian, and I agree about what you wrote of your experience to be totally true. But, not all people behave in that way. Yes, flights with lots of Indians is noisy. I can differenciate that travelling with Europeans and travelling with South Asian. But, about smell, even you too would be smelling to some people. So thats natural. Regarding behaviour i agree, but again not all are like that( for example: myself). Thanks for reflecting where my people should improve.

150. Nirmal - May 7, 2014

Hi,
I have travelled a quite a few times, even in same route too. I do agree on few points you had mentioned about the Children being unruly and people smelling bad, triggering migraine in me.
But fact of the matter is, not all were Indians during my travel, as you had just mentioned. Not trying to defend, but I don’t want to mention the nationals. Your article would have been nice, if it did not point out on just a genre of people.

151. Vivek - May 20, 2014

From my observations being an Indian and having spent my life shuttling between India and a host of western countries. I can whittle down the Indian attitude problem to a simple illustration: using the headlight flash feature. In most western countries, flashing your lights means “Please pass, I will wait for you”. In India, it means “Get the eff out of my way, I’m coming through”. A simple analogy, but a perfect fit.

Madhu - May 22, 2014

what is “In most western countries”. The author is talking about indian’s circus in the air. you are talking about aggressive indians on road!! then you go “but a perfect fit” you are giving yourself 10/10 on your own.
you made me waste my 10 secs reading your moronic reply.

Vivek - October 25, 2014

Like most Indians, you open your mouth before listening to the message. Whether it’s in the air or on the ground, the problem is the Indian selfishness, which expresses itself in the boorishness not only on that plane, but everywhere you find Indians in numbers. A couple of Indians will be almost perfectly-mannered, but the same ones will revert to type when boosted by numbers of their own, or when in public in India. Learn to listen and understand. Most Indians don’t.

Raj Kumar - June 4, 2014

Sorry Vivek – Your analogy is not a perfect fit if you want to demonstrate. How about a better example. Compare the unmanned signals in the US with that in India. How do we fare?.
How do we generally behave in traffic here in India?. Reasons could be anything, but the facts are facts. The observation posted by the author is in deed the general behaviour of Indians. If it is called racism, then so be it.

Vivek - October 25, 2014

I think my analogy fits, just as well as yours. It is the Indian attitude of utter selfishness which is on display not just here in India, but wherever Indians congregate in sufficient numbers to overcome their innate lack of self-worth. I do agree with the author, and I don’t know what made you think I don’t.

152. Vik - May 21, 2014

This blog is extremely offensive and shows your self centric nature. Has it ever occurred to you that language could have been the problem. Let me enlighten you: India has 32 officially recognized languages (oh by the way English is not one of them) and 150 dialects. I would suggest you be mindful of the words you use. How dare you address Indians as idiots. This just shows your racist supremacy.

153. kart - May 23, 2014

This planet has had borders, languages, dividing cultures for centuries now….Now that, 747’s are flying across those borders hauling all kinds of people for trade….Lets call this a minor inconvenience. Wow what a progress as a human race. We are not barbaric any more. We don’t extinguish a group of people. We have learned to co-exist (and continuing to). In the meantime, I agree, most third world people behave different form westerners. Lets think for a moment. They didn’t go to the same school as you did. Their parents did not drop them in a fancy school from their 4 Bedroom middle class suburban home and Soccer SUV/ wagon american lifestyle. Most huddled to school or walked miles barefoot and struggled a long way in their lives….to be travelling on the same plane as you do. 300 million vs 1 Billion. Thats 4 times population in 1/3 of your land mass. Its very different. Please put up with them if you come across one. Be positive. Their kids that are raised here have changed. Kids that go to american schools behave like people from here. It takes time. West and Third world co-mingling. Please don’t hate anyone in the mean time. Teach them politely. They will all eventually learn.It takes time for them to learn. But they will. I changed over years….so will others.

Anna - June 4, 2014

Nicely written! But it is not really a ” Western Coup”. Lets take over the third world and make their society miserable like ours! We suck in relationships and oh yes, barely have resoect for our own family or even do not have one!!!
I really wonder if the people who thinks others need to change to fit to their satisfaction should even step out from their own borders. Stay inside you circle of comfort and stop trying to and wishing to change others to your skin! If you cannot accept people for what they are then hide. One can site worse situation of humiliation and disrespect showed by a so called westerner! But then again I have had the basic education to know that one should not judge or individualize!

154. Why I Should Avoid Indians | Whatever You Say, Silly - May 24, 2014

[…] Indians ===================== racist rude selfish apathetic superficial two-faced judgmental cheap noisy nosy idiotic greedy xenophobic devious spineless unhygienic lack of self respect lack of respect […]

155. JustAnotherGuy - May 25, 2014

I am an Indian (even though living abroad now) and totally agree with all the points. I am ashamed of my nationality and these are the reasons I always avoid Indian airliners while flying.

156. Madhu - May 26, 2014

JustAnotherGuy please note that going abroad doesnt change nationality status. Everybody knows that. You are watching too many indian TV serials.
You are a big liar too. whats “I always avoid Indian airliners while flying” You mean indians dont fly with other airliner? Your english is poor and so is you iq. Learn something from Kart (151kart – May 23, 2014) read and reread her reply. look how she is replying.

157. Chris - June 1, 2014

Thank you for speaking out as a passenger. I am a cabin crew and your observation couldn’t be more true. We do need more understanding passengers like you onboard to deal with unruly pax like those (sorry) Indians!

158. jsdc007 - June 2, 2014

Well, cheap generalizations and exaggerations abound on this site, don’t they? I’ve been flying to India from the US for decades now, and while there is the occasional scrum while boarding, or the occasional drunken lout, or the occasional underarm deodorant challenged adult, the characterization of Indian travelers by the author seem extreme and absurd. Maybe the author ought to forego the EK nonstop to Dubai and try another carrier if he’s surrounded with nasty stereotypes on this flight. There ARE other options, you know?

fetzthechemist - June 2, 2014

Coincidently, the company that brings me over for business – and makes the travel arrangements- did just that on two of my three trips this year. It was refreshing to deal with groups of predominantly European and American passengers. The person in front of me on my flight on Luftansa from SF to Frankfurt actually turned around to tell me he was going to lean his seat back.

jsdc007 - June 2, 2014

Well, that’s fabulous then! You’re happy dealing with a wide-bodied jet filled with 300+ graduates of the Miss Manners Institute of Inflight Behavior. And the 200+ South Asians on the EK flight don’t have to worry about being condemned on the pages of a statistically challenged internet blog by the trashy behavior of 10 of their compadres. A win-win situation for all.

be kind - June 2, 2014

Finally nice to see some unbiased humor on this blog 🙂

Carlos B - June 3, 2014

Yes cheap generalizaions abound here. However, they were earned with painful experiences. And, they are accurate.

You must feel so self righteous?

jsdc007 - June 3, 2014

The reality about stereotypes is that they’re true. But the other reality about stereotypes is that they shouldn’t be extrapolated beyond those who exhibit those stereotypical traits. So, while every flight to and from India has several of those stereotypes onboard, the vast majority of those onboard are just your average Joe and Jill pax who want to get from A to B. No fuss, no muss. So, no, I don’t feel righteous. I’m just amused by the puerile, pavlovian tribalism exhibited by the usual suspects on here.

159. Carlos B - June 3, 2014

Enjoyed reading your comments on flying with Indians. (should I add Pakis and Arabs?)

I am a retired airline employee having worked for two international airlines, both as a staff member and a manager. Your experiences are very accurate. This cultural group is loud, obnoxious and earns their deserved reputation of being rude, high maintenance and difficult towards airline employees. Just ask an airline employee off duty what they really think.

On one flight from Seattle to Bangkok I was in a middle seat on a 747. One of my seat companions, an Indian lady next to me was trying to stretch out. She continually pushed her feet into my legs, while lifting her blouse to air out herself from a recent gall ladder surgery. Unbelievable.

On a different subject, I recently was employed (very briefly) by an Indian hotel owner. He hired me as he saw that my experience would help build his business. Yet, he was unfair, dishonest and changed his terms of employment with me. All without any discussion.

160. Deepesh Soni - June 4, 2014

“Clueless, egocentric, rude to the maximum” – I couldn’t agree with you anymore.

161. Ragda - June 4, 2014

Kids will run
—————

There is a fundamental difference in the way Indians look at bringing up their kids v/s the western nations.
Kids are the most precious assets for parents. Most Indians love kids and will spend time and attention on their (and sometimes all) kids. For most things the kids have a lot of freedom to basically “be kids”.
So “sitting quietly for 12 hours” is something that is in contradiction to a regular “be kids” philosophy and so Indian parents will normally ignore the issues that an adult may have because of this noise since as an adult you can deal with it.

There are however limits and if you ask politely and the parents feel that you are not prejudiced against the kid they may listen.

In general the western philosophy of having the kids be independent and disciplined from a young age and the assumption that the kid will leave home when 18 is something alien to Indians. They look at westerns as poor parents and any advise on disciplining kids from a westerner is taken with a pinch of salt.

So in general Indian kids will be noisy and will run around since that is what they are expected to do as kids by their parents.

The tyranny of politeness
———————————

The standards of interaction between people are also very different etween the west and India.
We genuinely feel for people and will go out of the way to help people. This inclues, letting them live in our house, genuinely helping them look for a job if they need, taking care of their kids, cooking for them when in hospital etc. Most Indians are very social and extremely gregraious. Most of our festivals involve visiting friends and family. We stand with friends and family when rewuired and indeed go out of the way.
Your neighbour will probably take you to the hospital and visit you and ensure that you get home cooked food every day you are in the hospital. This is disappearing as we become more westernised and urbanized, but it is still a part of our society and culture.
The politeness of the western world is completely alien to us. We need to learn that when an American asks you “How are you” we are not supposed to really describe how screwed up the day has been but “ALWAYS” say “fine, how are you.”. This formal and pretentious way of interaction is completely alien to Indians.
All the time they are living in the west, thwy have to be “fine” and it is stifling. We would rather thump a friend on the back and say a three letter curse and expect the same back along with a real handshake.

So when we are on the way back to India we are shaking off the politeness and sometimes going overboard with the Indian way of talking and greeting each other.

That does not mean that I am condoning being impolite with air-hostess or with co-passengers, just telling the way I have felt and knowing Indians, perhaps the way they may have felt too.

There is a very nice movie with the title like “Big fat Greek wedding” where the surprise of the Greeks in that movie about Americans is something to a milder extend how Indians feel.

Another thing is that Indians are very proud of their culture and touchy about westerners who we feel were barbarians when we were writing the greatest literary and scientific works.

So what I am trying to say is yes we are different.

For example the typical Indian thinking about body odor would be : Sorry! humans do smell and covering it with perfume is the western way, the Indian way would be to provide large bathrooms in planes so that passengers could shower. So please deal with it. And yes faucets to wash in the Indian way would also be welcome. But we do deal with it by using toilet paper, which most Indians think is messy and completely unhygenic.

The whole world has needed to deal with the western way of life.
There will be different kinds of people you will encounter, in life and in planes.
It is just a question of 16 hours ar the most, smile and deal with it, we had to deal with britishers in our country for 250 years 🙂

Carlos - June 15, 2014

Ok fine. Meanwhile take a bath and use a deodorant when flying. And, no, airlines are not going to provide large bathrooms on planes for Indian culture bathing.

paid - June 17, 2014

Cralos, man you are Awesome as American’s Awesome.Everywhere we have stereotypes, Stop bashing a culture man. Using deodorant has long term health issues you dumb ass.Arabs hardly ever take bath we cannot blame them for it because water scarce there.So you stereotype them? If wiping ones ass with paper and coming out with deodorant is civilization, Indians are much ahead of whatever culture you are coming from. The blog owner is not racist but you are.and Fenzchemist has good intention of educating people,not to bash others and their culture.

162. Harry - June 4, 2014

White white white…people!!! All I wanna say is you guys are the most smelliest…rudest….prejudiced people!
Gone are the days of colonization but still couple of white bastards & morons think they are far more superior than others….shit bags!!
You guys have a big problem with Asians specially Indians …reason being you cannot see us grow…and the way our economy and country is growing every day….India is much bigger than even couple of your countries put together so as expected when white dogs feel that they are insecure and are not growing anymore they become mad 🙂 so that’s what happening to you guys. So, as a suggestion stop abusing Asians and focus and concentrate on your work and your country’s growth so that as a result your country can grow and develop more…else you all will just land up making fools of your selves!

– A PROUD INDIAN! who made white realized that who they really are and what kinda low standards they have!!! Bloody hypocrites

Carlos - June 8, 2014

Maybe the recent irrational treatment I received from an Indian has me following this blog. Your comments of White Bastards, Shit bags, etc., fully state your own prejudice. Your culture of rudeness, smellyness, arrogance. These behaviours I will never tolerate. If you are a Proud Indian. Find something to be proud about.

PK - June 11, 2014

Carlos, I read Harry’s comment and was trying to come up with something to do justice to his attitude. Yours is pretty good. I will try to add to it:

It’s amusing to read someone defend rudeness by claiming that they are entitled to act that way and to attack their opponents as losers. Instead of repudiating their attackers, they validate them. It also shows that they have stunningly not put any thought into self-analysis or reflection for how they behave.

Americans sometimes fall for that too. Instead of thinking that perhaps we ought to maybe not wear white socks with black trousers and shoes when walking around European countries where NOBODY does that, many American tourists continue to do so. Or they talk loud. And when confronted they proclaim: “I’m number 1! Yeah!” But such an ugly American has been criticized for decades and most are truly ignorant and clueless.

But even so, most American tourists even back then had reputations for being good tippers and friendly. If you’re going to be a rude, successful jerk, don’t act like you’ve just crawled out of a slum and can’t tip a waitress more than a dollar for customizing a table of 6’s orders. In the states, we wouldn’t dare do such a thing not only out of basic manners and ethics, but also because waiters are handling your FOOD and things such as beef broth can easily “slip” into vegetarian curry orders.

And in India, they know better than to try that. Don’t tip/bribe someone, and you’ll find out quickly the error of your ways. It’s only because people in the west are amazingly non-racist and polite that such Indians continue such behavior.

163. NG - June 4, 2014

Dear fetzthechemist,

I am so sorry to hear about your horrible experiences! I am an Indian girl who has lived, worked & studied in different parts of the world. Being a frequent traveler based out of India, I can empathize with you. So many things that you mentioned have happened on the flights I took. I, in fact, dread those flights but have no option. One more annoying thing that Indians do is as soon as the boarding starts, people get up and crowd the goddamn boarding gate instead of queuing up and waiting for a few more minutes like a civilized group.

After hearing your experiences, I would like to let you know that all of India is not full of such people. So please do not view the entire country with the same eyes. But sigh, most of the obnoxious travelers you will meet probably might be rude and inconsiderate like earlier ones. This is why my family or I NEVER travel using Air India or Jet Airways or other Indian carriers. And I know you would be doing the same probably by now.

It is sad that many people from my culture promote such bad examples and are inconsiderate of others. Being a woman in this country, I feel unsafe and face issues in domestic travel FAR more than during my international trips. It is sad to hear that people from other countries go through such pain just because they boarded a place full of Indians.

I wish you well and hopefully better and pleasant flying and travel experiences in future!

Best,
NG

Carlos - June 8, 2014

Well, that is not true. Just follow several Indian tourists in London, Berlin or Bangkok. The smell is unbearable.

You feel unsafe as a women traveling? Certainly not from white men. YOur own kind for sure.

164. Anna - June 4, 2014

fetzthechemist? Whats’s your nationality? Dumb, rude, arrogant English? And you call your self a man of science!!! Its because of people like you that the world is struggling to become a better place!!

165. UK indian guy - June 4, 2014

What a rubbish post. We indians are more clean then you white peoples..

Jeja - July 17, 2014

Hahahaaha, even you dont believe in that.

166. Shilpa - June 4, 2014

Next time you make reservation please enquire about your non Indian policy. I am sure many Indians will not prefer to travel with you preying on them like this. Not Indians but you should create boundaries for yourself. We Indians are very tolerant towards children and persons as such. Our children are not robots and don’t be on pacifiers all the time. God luck finding a flight or a place with out Indians. Deal with it, Indians will be there every where now Its better you start to tolerate them. Get well soon.

tom - June 17, 2014

Shilpy!! how are you. see fetacheesemist is complaining about unicorn children who go like bhawwwwww and those unicorn parent play deaf ear to this sordid act. all fetacheesemist wants is attention from parents. fetacheesemist suggest an early intervention – small spank here n there, little booo scare to shut that bhawwwww, also a small smoochi-woochi here n there could help, by the way.

and whats non Indian policy? indians dont buy insurance policy its not in their policy at all.

167. Manoor - June 4, 2014

just watch news analysis NDTV 24×7 – how they fight on tv during a discussion. That is not journalism and such …no respect for the other panelist at all.

tom - June 19, 2014

Masoor, very valid point – I mean look at this ongoing discussion in this blog.
Masoor, what about Les Wadia? look at his brazen act!! Les breaks loose and pulls miss after 5 years? things are really slowing down .. at this rate couples will have children after 65

what say Masoor, there is something black in dal?

168. Raj Kumar - June 4, 2014

fetzthechemist – Being an Indian in India and as an extensive traveler, I appreciate you honestly putting down your observations. They are true. They are in deed displayed by more Indians than less, so your generalization also stands justified. There are various cultural reasons why we behave that way, but I should not quote them.

Biggest problem we have right now is the denial. Our pseudo patriotism shows up. The innovation and originality died some 1000 years ago with invasions and what is left now is dirt and dust which we try to justify with our own cultural lenses. But we are getting there.. slowly..

We definitely need to introspect ourselves which is grossly missing. We do need mirrors so that we can look at ourselves and blogs like yours will definitely help.

Some people were trying to challenge this statistically and for them, I have to say that they are visually challenged.

People here feel proud as if they inherited great wealth of culture and civilization, forget simple saying from our beloved scripture “When you don’t have time and heart for introspection, you are never able to take a note of your wrong actions”.

Thank you for your blog. The world should be more open when it comes to these things and to more important things like terrorism.

Mr.Bose - June 6, 2014

@Raj Kumar
I see a sense of inferior complex inside you. What the author felt was discomfort travelling with a particular set of people and what he is communicating and as a matter of fact, motivating others, not his discomfort or displeasure, but hatred and intolerance.

I will bet for sure, if you ask tell an Indian about your discomfort, they will go extra mile to help you if they can. We can see that in India as well. Forget about international flights. Yes, there can be few people like you who are pseudo-civilized, will try to glow in front of everyone, but try to steal the moment if people aren’t paying attention.

Point is, the author is showing intolerance, hatred and cheapness.

He is not trying to be a critic of behaviour and manner, he is criticising a sect.

Why people from India are replying with left and right reasons, because, they can accept their mistakes and can learn, but they cannot stand hatred and intolerance.

Why do you feel inferior Raj? They have high standards, and we will learn from them, that does not make us inferior and does not grant them to hate us.

If you do not like us, why you talking about us. What a waste of your time.

I do not respect people who waste their time talking about things they hate, instead of either finding a way out or finding a way into fix it.

@Raj, the author maybe ignorant about the way Indians think and behave, we should explain them if they want to learn the brighter side, but people like you are for none. Not for an Indian brother, or a Canadian friend.

Just agreeing to the fact out of so much hoopla is an act of cowardliness. So do not reason with me that u r agreeing to the fact, when in real sense, people(including) are talking and making out much more than what was the intention.

@author, no comments to you. What is being discussed in this blog is shows the true civil nature of each person indulging.

Raj Kumar - June 9, 2014

@Mr. Bose – It shows only your ignorance. You are a theorist buddy.. you make one assumption yourself and keep talking about it..Me feeling inferior complex?..If you are unable to stand to truth, be it, but what he said is right. What we did in the past or what they did in the past.. all is past.. what is present in front of us now is present. We don’t give a good impression outside. If you don’t travel, you can keep yourself silent. If you travel, make it a point to observe.

What is civilization?.. Our ability to move along with others amicable and decently. You can give your own set of definitions, but fundamentals remain and we break them. You throw towels, napkins and what not into the toilets and how are you going to explain that phenomenon with our great indian past culture?. We can’t stand in queue and as soon as boarding is announced, we keep pushing and create a havoc.. How are you going to explain?.. What is that you are hiding here when the things are obvious.. the moment one comes and see our cities they will realize that we have absolutely no hygenic sense as we throw everything damn things on the road.. What kind of culture are we teaching them?..You may be doing wonders in side your home, but social behaviour is not about how you behave at home..

The more you try to justify your behaviour or the more you curse people who are agreeing, more ego-eccentricity you display. A coward is the one who hides, not the one who accepts. Yes, we behave badly and rudely outside and we need to fix it.

169. Harpreet Arora - June 4, 2014

@ fetzthechemist

I read all your comments. I think you hate India as a country and Indians which can be understood. Everyone has their own choice. but don’t u think u r being very racist. If you feel we Indians are bad in terms of hygiene and etiquette, DON’T make blogs and post comments here. If you have the guts, then come to India and say it upfront to any Indian. After that God save you. We are humans too and as mentioned by others we use more of hand gestures, etc. We don’t show off like u people do. We only say sorry, please and thank you when we really mean it. Not like You – say sorry for the heck of it. If you are so mad at Indians, why do u work or stay with them. Go and live in a dessert or a remote island or where ever u don’t find Indians.

fetzthechemist - June 4, 2014

This post goes through waves of comments. I must reiterate that I was and am only speaking of behaviours when flying. Not India as a nation, its growth, its culture, its history other than how it might result in a larger proportion of its airplane passengers being unenjoyable to be with on a plane.

I never mention hygiene. People cannot help that on a long plane ride. But if someone takes my seat and refuses to move to the assigned seat, that is arrogantly selfish and rude. If some bumps hard into me in the aisle, an apology would be nice (I do not expect this so-called token western politeness). If someone is getting their heavy bag out of the overhead and drops it on me, the same should done – an apology. If I am sleeping in my seat and someone steps into my space not in the aisle and steps on my foot which wakes me up, the the same. No apology for a little thing.

As far as the kids, some being kids is expected. But if a kid is running up and down the aisle uncontrlled and runs hard into people, the parent is letting the child be rude, not playful. If the crew is trying to serve a meal so the aisle is full of them and their carts, the parents should tell the child to sit for a bit until others have eaten. Not big changes, just some restraint at certain times.

Some of the behaviours would be more tolerable if overall the Indians who are impolite acted different some of the time.

AshRodrig - June 4, 2014

Mr fetzthechemist,

So sorry for your terrible experience. It must have been covered earlier, but again, most of your points are on an individual to individual basis and it is not a race thing. I have come across a lot of annoying people who yell and shout from other nationalities, race etc. but it does not give me the right to stereotype the whole race.

Maybe it is just your bad luck that you travel with such people who may be a small percentage of the total Indian population (remember a small %age of a billion ppl is still large lol)

So, in short, impoliteness, hygiene, courteousness is all dependent on the persons upbringing and not dependent on race. Plus all brown skinned people are not Indians. Pakistan, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh etc. also have brown skinned people. Don’t leave them out, they’ll feel bad haha..

Simon - June 4, 2014

@ Harpreet Arora, I bet a White person can say this in India in front of Indians by giving dollars or pounds.. you guys will stay calm and leave.. Your politicians and government are corrupt to the extent , to allow your challenge..

Do not challenge like this.. Challenge white in olympics by counting your country gold medals sorry any medals.. lol

R Singh - March 30, 2017

And who the hell are you to suggest where should Indians challenge whites, why don’t whites challenge Indians in cricket?

fetzthechemist - March 30, 2017

Whites do often and New Zealand, South Africa, and England do quite well against Indians.

Raj Kumar - June 5, 2014

I don’t know what you are trying to prove. Looks like typical politician’s response. If you want to say something, come here and I will beat the hell out of you even if you speak the truth. That’s what the politicians in India say to their rivals. What kind of hand gestures you are talking about?.. Can we stand properly in queue?. Can we get things done without using influence or bribe?.. Can we move without pushing others?..Can we drive within the lanes without causing disturbances to others? Look at the departure gates in European hubs. While rest of the gates look calm and quite, our gates is full of noise, bungling and grimy. When seat numbers are called, everyone will go and gather at boarding gate making the lives miserable for the airline staff. What kind of impression are you giving about yourself here?. Keep off being haughty and pseudo-patriot. You are not helping the cause other than justifying what he is saying.

PK - June 11, 2014

Sadly, we’ve seen similar behavior here in the states when it comes to gate behavior. There’s a term for them: “gate lice.” Now that airlines often charge for checked bags, the gate lice congregate at the gate for an hour to get that precious advance jump on others for the limited overhead capacity. Like a black Friday special, if you’re not at the head of the line, you’re wasting your time and will wind up getting “gate checked” and having to wait for your bag for 20 minutes while they fetch it out of belly.

But even the gate lice in the states don’t shove each other or cut in line most of the time.

I have personally found it’s more reasonable to offer the gate agent the option to check my bag in advance and save her time later and even check my bag through my connection (saves me a little time and saves them time to boot). Win-win. Also, I get some credit in their eyes as being a “civilized passenger” and perhaps scoring an upgrade. If I didn’t think I’d get into trouble, I’d even try to bribe them (Now I’m thinking like an Indian!) In the states, usually bribes are highly frowned upon or even highly illegal BUT good manners are also a way to sway officials into helping you out so that perhaps helps people to become better mannered.

Raj Kumar - June 9, 2014

Let us not talk about racism.. If racism is about branding a set of people with something, then we display it in abundance. Do you marry a girl belonging to a low caste girl than that of you?.. No.. you don’t.. why.. you have attached a virtual taboo to them. Here author is consistently finding problems with us, Indians and he is saying Indians.. there is nothing racism about it..

Udit - May 13, 2015

@harpreet arora..
U spoke like an ass. … Don’t under estimate others for their nice behaviour… People like u need to be shown some danda to behave sensibly as looser like you finds it hard to digest others politeness and see it as an opportunity to dominate them…. I am also an Indian living in India . I don’t think I will react the same way as u have mentioned… Infact if I find people like u I would love to kick ur ass..its not only me but even the people I know think the same way…

170. Grammar Nazi and also Brown - June 4, 2014

noticed one common thing about everyone talking about their experiences with Indians – horrible spelling! Are you guys sure you’re actually from all the countries you claim to be?

The funniest among them is Crystal….what does your husband have to say about your comments here?……….lol

171. Varun Sawhney - June 4, 2014

While I agree that it is difficult to travel with some people in flights irrespective of nationality, and the stuff mentioned certainly can make people uncomfortable; I still feel the person who has written this article seems quite rude and racist. All the problems on a flight seem to be simply because of misbehaved Indians!! Quiet simply the reason given is that they are Indians!! How stupid and racist.

I have seen worse Italians, Spanish, Russian, Arabic and and even British few times… I have experienced racism of the worst kind on International flights, many times even the hostesses or stewards are rude. Many times hostesses who are supposed to serve and well they don’t know what service means (to the modern “educated” lot it often means to dress up, speak in fluent English without bothering about the being understood by those who may not be that good in English. And they expect the World to move like them! Idiots!!) they are rude to passengers and are arrogant. Such people are not fit for the job.

The definition of service – the action of helping or doing work for someone.

The writer also said that almost 90% people on the flight were Indians – do you know anything about India?? What are the demographics of the country.

Which ever country you are from you certainly have a narrow World view and you certainly don’t have any idea about racism. Probably people like you haven’t stepped out of your comfort zone ever! See the World out there and you would know how varied people are.

Raj Kumar - June 5, 2014

Seriously man!!.. This is called being egocentric. We leave all our values to air and begin fighting without realizing what it actually is. He is not generalizing because he has seen one or two. He is saying because he has been consistently seeing it. He is right. If you travel, you just take few minutes of time and watch the departure gates in the European hubs. While every other gate, you can find calm and peace, our Indians gates are like fish market.

Can we be able to stand in the queue?. Can we drive properly on roads?. Can we stop using mobile phones as and when we feel like?. Please don’t say it is a great culture or great cultural thing or this is what everyone in rest of the world do.

172. Bharath B Lohray - June 4, 2014

Many of your observations are accurate. I have felt the same way and spent some time contemplating why indians behave the way they do and this is my conclusion –

India is a very populous country with extremely strained resources, and extending the courtesy of waiting for those before you will get you no where – for example – one cannot board a bus or train in India if they did not aggressively rush for a seat. This competitive nature has gotten into every aspect of our lives. From what I hear from elders, it does not seem that people behaved this way about 50 years back. As a student, I have observed that more Indian students cheat on tests than students of other nationality as honesty does not get anyone anywhere. schools have admission cut offs of ~99.97% and anyone with 99.96% are sent away.

A person born and brought up in the west may find it extremely hard to accept this – after all, what does it take to be a little bit polite? But in a country of 1.2B people, One cannot survive without egocentric.

As for the kids running in the aisle – that is just bad parenting. But what can you expect from a generation of people who had to be egocentric to survive.

Nagasubramanian Ramanathan - June 5, 2014

Even in places like Mannheim in Germany, where the pressure on resources is far less, it is very common to see people (native Germans included) boarding trains/trams without waiting for people to alight. People can be as rude or ill-behaved as anywhere else in the world. It is not very uncommon to see people conveniently leaving behind emptied bottles (soft drinks, beer, liquor), covers, coffee cups, etc. in the train/tram/bus seats, bus/tram stop chairs, etc.
In almost all flights throughout the world, one can see passengers standing up or filling up the aisles in a bid to get off the aircraft as soon as possible.

173. Naga - June 5, 2014

Whoever you are, I guess you are pretty educated with some fancy degrees in analytical chemistry. I am astounded by the way you talk about Indians as a whole in your blogs with your sense of superiority and righteousness. In another day and age I could totally see you being a southern slave master. Now that you can’t impose your superiority, you can just blog about it.

174. silencekills - June 5, 2014

i’m sorry im compelled to post here..
I lived in the USA for 3 long years and people there had been extremely friendly. I love the people there more than Indians since they have pleasant smile always on face and they do go ovr the board at times to help u.
I did flew from US to india and twice with kids and whites have been really friendly, one of the co-passengers who was in mid 50s I guess, she was fond of me(might be bcoz of indian wear, i’m not sure) and my 5 month old baby has been talking to us through out the journey,she dint mind lights were off, we were sleeping aswell but these all didn’t matter and had been saying stuff about her family,showing their family pictures and all, she weven offered help to get down our luggage..i felt she is nice..i doubt if something like this happened any of the people commenting on inidan hygiene they would surely react the other way saying intruding personal space..
when I say people in US are friendly that doesn’t mean I don’t have bad experience living there or flying from there..i hav my own share of unpleasant experiences also..i loved it when white at cash counter ask me about indian trip since I have not visited the store for many months then..i find it sweet, you may take it the other way..during of one of my op visits,one old lady came up to me and pulled my kurta little up to see the embroidery on it..i felt embrasses but I thought she was nice ,smiling and as old as my granny.. I prompltly pulled down it showing her dupatta..if it were you, you could have called it ill manners isn’t it?
when we have been to newyork, one guy always behind us initiating conversation and offering food to my 1 yr old kid and also one old man offered fruits to my 1 year old son..they were being kind to me..if it were you would have blamed the other one not into their business..
I have been suffering with hell lot of positivity and have to deal with it rather than hating people for no reason.

175. Zonam - June 5, 2014

Does Behavior needs a nationality ? Or every nation has its own behavior ? Neither is true..its people and their background. A quite American may be there, a rude Indian may be there ..but you cant say all American’s are quite or all Indians are rude.

176. Bindesh - June 5, 2014

Mr.Fetzthechemist,
Couple of things to set the record clear – I am a Indian. I’ve been traveling quite frequently (at least once every month) for last 8 years. By virtue of that – I am also a Gold Card Holder (for last 4 years…) with Emirates. And I was a silver card with Austrian during my earlier flying day. I’ve flown on sectors like: Vienna, Istanbul, London, Zurich, Geneva, Lagos, Accra. The introduction was simply to answer your “frequent traveler/lot of miles” chant.

Not that I want to defend my fellow citizens, but even seeing from a neutral eye, your comments are extremely prejudiced.

1. Your complain is Indian kids make lot of noise. The simply point is all kids do.You perhaps haven’t heard any kids from “west” making noise, because more often than not…you would have left your kids home! While Indians are more likely to travel with their complete families. As for kids – try googling and you would know there is more or less a common pattern of kids behavior in initial years… so it’s not about Indian or American or European…

2. You complain of body odor. May be because they are my people, so my nostrils refuse to smell the bad odour ,which you have talked of. Equally I’ve traveled with some of the worst smelling westerners… so whose word should one take..yours or mine ?? Quite obviously its not a generic phenomenon…but more to do with the person whom we might have bumped into…

3. Your claim of Indians putting trays in aisle is absolute rubbish..forget Indians…even in general ..I haven’t noticed, barring once or twice, a tray in aisle. We are sufficiently patient. We waited for our freedom for over 200 years!!

4. Boarding experiences…from a flight originating from Geneva or Istanbul, you would expect better boarding…right ? Unfortunately…No. It’s equally good or bad..and so is Delhi… What I’ve seen is 80% of people (irrespective of their nationality) would respect the announcement..while 20% always want to try their luck. And these 20%ers are found in every country…

I sufficiently enjoy my sleep whether flying in or out of India..!

A piece of advise to you – better accept and enjoy the flying experience…because all the airlines are airlines are making a beeline for the Indian pie…so whichever airline you fly..you are likely to bump into some of us!!

Carlos - June 15, 2014

Your comment Mr Bindish: “so my nostrils refuse to smell the bad odour which you have talked of” Quite a trick you have here, refusing to smell. Please pass along how you are able to tell your olfactory to not send these impulses to the brain.

Meanwhile, please just take a bath before flying. Your culture is not that impressive.

tom - June 17, 2014

Carlos, i am going to use strong quality garden hose pipe, size 3.5 inch. one sitting is enough. appointment is on friday 3.30. take only mild dinner on Thursday. this is because hysterical laughing reaction in presence of hose pipe could cause some complications if you come with full stomach. rest when we meet.

nb

i am going to use 15hp water pump.

177. kunal handu - June 5, 2014

Extremely sorry for the discomfort and agony you have experienced traveling with Indians, I am an Indian. About 200 years back some very civilized people from west visited us for export business of spices (east India company) These civilized people liked our country so much that they decided to rule it, robbing her of gold, resources, self respect, {not to mention of mass murders and killings} to cut a very long story short…when these civilized people decided to leave they did not apologize at all as well (how rude!) if we were to form a prejudice, then westerner especially Britons would be the most UN-reliable folks alive.. but we are civilized.

Now the daily hygiene, education, awareness everything costs money (which was looted for 200 years from some civilized western) hence it will take time.

rest assured i will float this post among frequent Indian travelers as a positive step to be civil.

Regards, Kunal Handu

PS:- Now if some one tells me how advanced london is, that not even a single new construction has happened in last 60 odd years, I know who has paid for it..

178. Usha - June 5, 2014

Just for some background: I am Indian, from India, age 63, gender female 🙂 And no, I have never yet taken a wheel chair to get on to an international flight! Maybe because my English is so good that I even capitalize, and punctuate my sentences? 🙂

Before I go ahead, I would just like to say that ( though ignored by all), I think Darin Kishore, the kid (who had me in splits right through this blog and comments) scored the best! For example, ‘antiperspirant is unhealthy’, ‘loooooonnnnngggg’ ‘Where is the question mark?’ (for a sentence that started with a what and ended with a full stop) ”What’s knee jerk?’, then a somewhat pertinent, ‘this is sorta mean, but sorta true’ (because everyone in India is Anna (elder brother) or Akka (elder sister) and a final resounding ‘Meh”! Oh, the wisdom from the mouth of babes 🙂

Er, Fetzthechemist, there is a lot of cross-cultural research these days addressing exactly your kind of observations..the point being each culture is different..not necessarily that one is better than the other. Let me give you a few examples..a Norwegian friend once told me that her 2 year old daughter missed all the attention she got in India after she returned to Norway. The flip side of this is the running around child. Do you know my south Indian language has no commonly used word for ‘Please’, ‘Thank you’ or ‘Sorry’? If it is said too many times people actually object..and I have heard comments about how Americans are so ‘artificial’ with their overuse of sorry, please and thank you (not mine, okay? I have learnt enough by now to ‘….do as the Romans do’ :). Even something more physical such as BO: I would think each ethnic group has distinct odors depending on what they eat perhaps..only the sense of smell is an amazing thing.. it gets used to familiar ones but can react to unfamiliar ones! Can you guess at what a vegetarian Indian might be feeling if his co-passenger had just eaten fish? 🙂 Believe me, I have been there! 🙂

Agree that much of what you described happens. I will not go into a sociological rant here explaining why it might be so (though there are perceptible reasons I would love to rant about). Some of these practices may be upsetting to other cultures. But then so are some practices of other cultures to Indians! Which are the best practices? Which are the right practices? Who is to be the judge?

What I really felt was not fair was your conclusion based on limited data..’clueless, egocentric , rude to the maximum’. I suggest 1. Read some cross cultural research. 2. Observe Indians in other situations particularly in their own country ( you have the opportunity to do so since you say you have visited 24 or so times). 3. Write again 🙂

Usha

179. Dheeshum Singh - June 5, 2014

I might totally concur with the author of this blog on, let us say, 90% of the points has been made in the first story, but on Hygiene:

Explain this, Indians do always use water to clean them after being to the loo (for potty ofcourse) but I have always been disgusted with Americans/Europeans using those long rolls of toilet paper scrubbing their bottoms and trying to wipe that shit out.

I think in that sense, “You” stink a lot my dear.

Disclaimer: I am an Indian origin Global Citizen. As mentioned above, I concur with 90% of the complaint but not the one on Hygiene for sure 🙂

180. alan bright - June 5, 2014

This is a bloody racist article! I travel at least 25 times a year on international flight…Yes, some times Indians behave irrationally but no where they behaved as explained in this article. Remember, when all of Europe and America were barbaric, India showed world what culture means! You talk about smells, but you might not know (with your limited racist reading) that Indians taught world how to beth with water and clean yourself. People are like you are just pure shit minded racist white men, who believe that whole world except whites is your slave. Wake up…. Indians are regaining their position soon and no country can survive without doing business with India. That means you gonna need to take many such flights with many such Indians! Live with it or get the f out of plane

181. papu - June 5, 2014

The writer is most idiot person imo.
Wait for just few years and you all will queue to visit India.

182. Merwyn - June 6, 2014

I am an Indian currently in Australia, lived most of my life in Kuwait and have seen scores of people in flights and airports around the world. Bad behaviour is not specific to any country, I have seen drunk Indians and well as other nationalities. What many have not understood on this blog is that majority of the Indians in the Middle East come from the lower strata of society. To say that they know their manners in dotting the i’s and crossing the t’s is ridiculuous let alone have the knowledge to behave in public.

For these Indians, the opportunity to earn a few dollars above the average Indian wage is a dream come true, forget the shiny planes, classy crew, the technology and freebies they get while flying. Many of them would behave politely if they were made to understand the etiquette required in planes, in airports and in lounges. I have been touched by their gratitude in filling out their entry forms when flying to India, because they plucked the courage to request me since I am brown 🙂

I do not make excuses for the westernised Indians, those few who are a pain with their boorish attitude, obnoxious kids and loutish behaviour. They are the cream of the society who have been flying all their life but still do not know how to behave. Unfortunately it is with these few that I have my pet peeve because they are the bad apple in the basket.

I am sure there are such people in every country, whom we call bogans down under. And their behaviour borders on the insane; quite tame compared to the smelly, foot stomping, loud talking, gregarious Indians that fetzthechemist has unfortunately come across in many of his travels.

183. Sharma - June 6, 2014

I am an Indian myself. Certain points are true in the article. But brothers and sisters India is going to dominate the world for the next 300 years. So be ready.

184. Vishal - June 6, 2014

I ended up on this blog by total accident but kind of enjoyed it and I am really surprised how people are reacting to the blog.

not taking sides BUT being an 101% indian I do agree on most parts what Mr. Fetzthechemist has to say and Yes most of it is right.

instead of understanding core message I see so many ‘ super educated ‘ indians using arty smarty english to defend what is essentially nuisance.

What culture and national pride you are talking about – only smoke and mirrors.

I personally HATE to fly in plane full of Indians in particular and fly ONLY business as much as I can to avoid the general population NOT because I am racist far from it ‘ Hey I too have brown skin and have been @ receiving end due to it.

BUT

I am fed up of kids crying loud AND uneducated village bums pushing their immigration forms in your face AND people BANGING toilet doors and then leaving it like ‘flowing’ mess and old dead uncles farting with glory or people demanding drink after drink and drink also expecting GORI air hostess to be their friend and forget about please or sorry that does not exist even if they drop they over weight cabin bags on your head and then lifeless stupid girls expecting you to be their COOLIE AND conversations are loud and they want to discuss their bank balances, mama who is minister and best of all politics and property.

+ manners don’t exist and they their is nothing like assigned seats esp. if your first timers love birds want a cosy nest or husband who has severely obese wife with 3 kids to manage.

It is a MESS lets accept it and as rightly pointed INDIANS are not polite people and being obnoxious is national pride.

I travel frequently and stay away from GHETTO of indians as you can call it.

Great country no doubt with so many many talented and amazing people but majority who do get a chance to travel abroad ‘ for so many of them it is a dream ‘ what part I can’t understand till date ‘ leave ONLY bad name.

I do see lot of sensible indians who do accept that we have major problems and we do not know how to interact with people BUT then their is this brigade of smarty fancy educated english types who are at max practicing their language confusing skills then accepting what is wrong.

185. Mr.Bose - June 6, 2014

(sorry for my English and spelling mistake, that’s how I am and I try to improve as much as I can)

We cannot change someone’s perception. A Canadian will look at the world with a Canadian culture and courtesy , An Indian will look at the world with a Indian culture and courtesy.

So stating each other racist and animal does not hold a universal ground, people are different, they act different and their social and personal values are different.

What holds common ground universally and as followed in every religion, faith and morals, is to make sure you do not hurt your fellow mates physically, emotionally. you should not hold grudge.

I think if Canadians hate Indians, please find a way to push them away or push yourself away. if things goes against the law, law will take care of it.

Just sitting here and criticising someone because they are not meeting your level of expectation ..what i can say…its like behaving like a foolish person, simply foolish… yes you paid extra for that seat on aisle, but you didn’t paid people so that they behave to the best of your expectation. Neither they have asked for alms.

why i am writing this, because i do not understand what will you gain out of this. maybe i will learn a lot from your blog and know where u will feel good about my behaviour, maybe i will be more successfully in doing business with you as i know your dislikes, that may make me earn more money, then should you cry again that indians come and steal our money by out smarting us…???

My brother, history has proven that people who hated perished, people who accepted lived long. If you cannot accept, find your own way, if you are smart, you will not find yourself among the so called fools ( animals ) defined by you.

186. hsp - June 6, 2014

How about adding some cleverly crafted ‘etiquette advice’ as part of the pre-flight instructions. Everyone needs some help 🙂

#Emirates @emirates

187. tom - June 6, 2014

Indian flyers? Forget it.. look at some of the indian aviation industry people!!
it so happens that … a team of 3 cabin crew(female) and pilot- first officer (female) working with one the leading domestic airliner comes to stay in our residential complex.
Leaving one of the cabin crew member all other members have one thing in common = “cheap”. Big time cheat …so mammoth in their cheating that it will put hardcore pickpocket to a shame.
Member 1 (flower): purchased groceries worth rs.250( $4) and disappeared …caught her when she came back to collect her baggage. She did not had Rs.250 on her…went with her to ATM to collect my rs.250
Member 2(chink): purchased groceries worth rs.150 ($2.5)…not paying…shamelessly comes to buy something on credit
Member 3(Ma Baker): This one wins Oscar. A pilot? Will come under one or other pretext of going somewhere in hurry … want something urgently … no cash to pay… called her 6 times to collect rs.1100

now,What if scenario = above 3 on a flight that is going through some sort of emergency !!!!

omg omg omg …. what sort of world we are living in…

188. tom - June 6, 2014

181. Sharma – June 6, 2014.. you are one moron who needs some special treatment and a brain transplant… i wish i meet you one of these days so that i can slap you and the other moron 183. Mr.Bose – June 6, 2014 and other in likes of you too. i will hit you so hard .. so that you will always stick to the subject.

189. tom - June 6, 2014

182. Vishal – June 6, 2014.. great… wow

190. tom - June 6, 2014

180. Merwyn – June 6, 2014 great… wow

191. tom - June 6, 2014

179. papu – June 5, 2014.. read 186. this covers you too. but some extra spanking is required every after 10 minutes for 30 days. with this treatment you may be able to grasp something good in future. take your f word to some other blog that is suitable for your iq

192. Singh - June 6, 2014

I have travelled on those flights a lot… more than a dozen times in a yr… (speaking of which, I am not sure how you managed to get a gold card, flying only a dozed times in 12 yrs). While I must admit that Indian kids on the whole are noisier than their western counterparts (but, then i like children and dont mind if they are happy and noisy… u presumably are an old fuck with a stick up his ass who like to yell and scream at children and apparently believes that children should be seen and not heard and be beated twice a day), I do not agree with the rest of your assesment. In my experience Indian passengers are normally quite well behaved and a bit too docile… I have seen Indian passengers accept mis behaviour from the air staff which a westerner would never accept. Re the Indians getting vegetarian good first… not sure what is your problem with that… Its much better than western idiots like you who spend the whole time in flight swilling alcohol.

Finally regarding body ordour… Have you ever sat next to a fat westerner… they smell of cheese and beer (odours, which to my mind, are lot more unwholesome than the sweat from honest toil)? But, then you most likely are fat stinky fuck yourself….

And the Indians who have been commenting in favour of this post – you are pathetic…. I think the reason for this is a strong inferiority complex in your mind…. look deep into yourself and you will see I am right.

fetzthechemist - June 6, 2014

You, like several Indians here, miss the points on many things. You read only part of a comment and response without reading it all.

I do not mind children on flights, but some Indian children are out of control. They run into people in the aisle, and not just the gentle bumping. The ones I am bothered by are the children who are older, 8 to 12, who can be large enough to hurt if they crash into you.

I do not mind Indians getting their special meals first, but I mind that they finish first and while the crew is trying to feed the rest of us and these first people stop them and demand their trays be taken away, demand tea, coffee, alcohol. They think the crew must only serve them first while others must wait until these Indians are completely cared for.

As far as body odor, that is other commenters, not me. On a long flight, everyone will get a little rankish. This and no one can control glands in their skin – a lot of that is hereditary. I comment on behaviours, things done intentionally or that ought to be controllable.

You and other nationalistic Indians castigate your countrymen who have a heart and understand that treating other people more poorly than you want yourself treated is selfish and arrogant. If you want to be treated nicely, treat others nicely as well.

Indian will never be a great nation as you claim until people do things while thinking of the good for the whole, for others and not just of the good for “ME”. With the latter, corruption remains rife, people do things wherevthey gain but everyone else loses.

fetzthechemist - June 7, 2014

Thank you for your coment. I do not think my culture is better or the Indian one is worse. What bothers me is the almost constant attitudes that I am less than them, that they are better than me and so they gain and I suffer. I see that arrogance in many of the comments here, those of the nature of We are over a billion and you and the rest of the world has to get used to our shitty attitudes because it benefits us and too bad for you. I find it ironic as it mirrors the arrogance of imperial Britain that these same people hate.

193. Mike Fay - June 6, 2014

I am Indian, but have traveled extensively…I also have many FAs as friends. and to the last one they agree that flights that culminate in India look like a disaster zone, because the Indian passengers just throw stuff on the floor and expect the crew to clean up after them. about the odor…Many Indian men take off their shirts after work, slip into a loose fitting Lungi (wrap-around) and go to bed. In the morning they shower but don’t bother with deo and put the same soiled sweaty dried shirt back on. Guess what? Within an hour the smell is unbearable….and the laborers going home from the GCC live in such abject conditions there and get vacations once every 2 years…they can’;t wait to get loaded and act stupid…

194. Hayek - June 7, 2014

Fetz, Interesting post and even more interesting (and long) comment train. Nevertheless, I could not resist adding my two paise.

By way of background, I am an Indian, based in Bombay, and fly overseas about 15-20 times a year – mostly on work but also once or twice a year on leisure. I also take about 75 flights a year within India. My leisure trips are in economy class – fortunately, my company pays business class fares on work trips. And yes, I have flow Emirates several times, on various sectors – Johannesburg, JFK, Heathrow, Istanbul etc. For any place which is not connected to Bombay by a direct flight, Emirates does represent a relatively economical and convenient flying option. For people who fly from smaller towns in India, Emirates almost invariably represents the best option. For Emirates itself, even on non Indian sectors, Indians represent a disproportionate share of customers. In fact, Emirates is the largest international airline out of India – even if it is owned by the Dubai ruling family, it is India’s de facto national airline.

Some of the points you make about Indians and the way they behave are factually (or at least directionally) correct. Indians are loud, aggressive, used to cutting corners, have a very different notion of how close you can get to someone else without intruding on their space, not used to minding their Ps and Qs, treat kids and moms with kids like royalty, and are used to being fawned over by service sector employees. Further, the expectation on the part of Western cabin crew that they be treated like equals by passengers is seen as being uppity and not in keeping with their duty to treat customers like kings. That is Indian culture – it is different from modern American culture, but probably not that different in the treatment of cabin crew from the American culture of the 1960s as borne out by this ad.

(http://www.businessinsider.in/26-Sexist-Ads-Of-The-Mad-Men-Era-That-Companies-Wish-Wed-Forget/1968-American-Airlines-wants-you-to-think-of-its-attractive-flight-attendants-as-your-mother-/slideshow/34840394.cms) (irrespective of the text, I don’t think too many mothers pose the way the flight attendant does in this add:-))

You may believe your culture is superior to that of others ( and yes there are definitely many Indians, both in the US and India, who would agree with you), but it does behoove an educated and accomplished person such as yourself to recognise and accept differences between cultures.

The other point you make is that Indians can behave anyway they like in India, but should behave based on Western standards in a flight out of SFO. But as you point out, traffic on the EK SFO- DXB-SFO flight is 80% Indian, and therefore you have to treat that flight as if it is a flight to India. (As an aside, Indians account for a plurality in the population of Dubai as well, even if most of the Indians on the SFO-DXB flight are going to India). Further, Emirates recognises that it depends on traffic from Indians – and targets that segment by insisting the flight attendants behave in manner acceptable to this customer segment. While Western EK flight attendants like Crystal may resent the behaviour they have to put up with, that is part of the package that comes with that job – you want to make EK’s high and tax free salaries, deal with their customers in an acceptable manner. By the way, it is not just Indians who demand deferential treatment from flight attendants, that is true for most Asians (frankly, I have seen Arab passengers in first class behaving far more obnoxiously than any Indian would dare to on EK). You may think this reflects an inferior culture, but it is the culture that prevails in most of the world. The success of EK and of airlines like SQ or CX flying east from India is because they recognise and cater to this demand.

Of course, this is your blog – and you have the right to your views. But I did think I should give my perspective as well.

[BTW, some of your other examples seem to be unique to your sector – in over a million miles of flying, I have never once observed someone place his or her food tray in the aisle (however, they would very happily move the tray to a vacant middle seat). ]

PK - June 16, 2014

I remember the golden era of flying in the west. While there are similarities between that era and how Indians regard service level workers, a few caveats need to be considered:

1) Western standards for etiquette and manners on travel were higher back then. People dressed as if they were going to church or to court. It was like being in an opera house.

2) Stewards and Stewardesses were treated with MORE respect back then, not less. Although the title has been fancied up with “fight attendant” because of a negative connotation of Stewardesses being expected to be sexy, they were respected MORE back then providing service rather than being sky wardens. Providing service wasn’t the same thing as tolerating abuse or disrespect. Well dressed businessmen and families taking a rare vacation were on their best behavior and were expected to say “please” and “thank you” and wait patiently for the stewardess (or steward sometimes) to come around. They also treated other passengers with respect. In first and business class cabins, I have rarely heard or seen FA’s being treated with disrespect by ordinary passengers (those not drunk or on an ambien trip.)

3) Smoking. This is one of my favorite things that changed since then. Back then, smokers ruled and intimidated everyone into putting up with their smoke or they’d make a huge problem as addicts. That’s been cut back considerably and that’s a good thing.

Culture clashes: Americans and Europeans are well on notice that different cultures have different standards (women should cover up in Muslim countries, for example). Nonetheless, there is a concept known as basic courtesy. Simply because one culture is rude or selfish, doesn’t make that a mere “difference” that should be tolerated by other cultures but rather the opposite: If members of the ruder or more selfish culture continue to act that way, the other culture either adapts and becomes more rude and selfish (and this tragically happens sometimes) OR people in the rude culture get a bad reputation. In other words, you make your bed and you live in it. How long India will continue to grow (or at least members of the country get money to do work more cheaply than elsewhere) will depend upon whether consumers and other countries being to get dissatisfied with a cheaper-is-better business ethic. In the case of Chinese made goods, I know many Americans for example who won’t even consider buying Chinese made products for babies because of a reputation for the Chinese using lead to cut corners. “Made in the USA” now means something again at maternity stores in the USA.

tom - June 17, 2014

I too remember the golden era of flying to Burkina Faso. While there are similarities between that era and how Indians regard service level workers, a few other caveats emptor also need to be considered.

sellfish culture either adapts and becomes more sellfish which is destroying kingdom under water. japs eat raw fish and sushi and make new cars means lot more again better is best business ethic and causing havoc in amrican auto industry creating domino effect and boosting sales of weed in USA.

true, you make your bed and you live in it without mosquito net with bong.

195. tom - June 7, 2014

190. Singh – June 6, 2014 is one more moron found on june 6. this blog is slowly bringing out morons one by one.

watch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPo9n74vCI8

similar police force is required on a plane too. Then and than we will have what fetzthechemist is talking.. some little concern towards other’s comfort. some.. little..nobody’s asking to join finishing school before boarding that plane…. just small tiny little civic sense is required.

Police are not brutal in India… you cant tame a donkey with soft skills

there was inauguration program at xyz place to unveil new sophisticated train. 1000’s and 1000’s thronged..everybody wanted to touch something or other part of that train…people who could finally touch this train went into some frenzy and others wanted piece of it.. fight ensued ..police were called … beating began….and there again you could hear that thudding and squealing sound ..

talk about behaving in plane?

196. Vishal - June 7, 2014

@ 192 Mr. Hayek – so very classic indian response of beating the trumpet ‘ it’s like we indians have different level of hygiene ‘ – ‘ and since we are what we are better deal with US as we are large in numbers or give large business ‘

What you fail to understand is that Airlines may be catering to high demands but that does not make INDIA better – choice is we live in our fancy fantasy loop sided world or make an attempt to be accepted socially not because we have large amount of money.

Note that great nation is not built because of some fancy historical culture which in my opinion is nothing short of slavery & exploitation BUT Character which sadly INDIANS lack and cannot get it in next 100 odd years.

197. Just making a point - June 7, 2014

This is for everyone in the the thread.

We live as a community and have this sense of togetherness. Considering India is a highly collectivist culture, we have been brought up in big families where everyone is close knit. Being amicable, we do not build boundaries around us therefore we sound loud when out of our country. While I agree kids are let loose and might cause inconvenience to other passengers, you could cut them some slack considering they are only innocent kids intending to have some fun.

We have come a long way from the poor nation that we used to be. Your so called “white” people have ruled and exploited the Indian nation in the most inhumane way possible for the only reason that India was extremely rich. And mind you, we haven’t retorted in any way. This should tell you how we are as people. To be exploited like that and rendered a poor country, we still managed to get up on our feet and focus on fixing the damage done to us without waging a war. With 70 percent of the population living in rural areas the priorities of their life have been getting shelter, food and water. Kindly excuse us for not paying attention to other’s levels of comfort or not developing manners as appropriate to your customs. when we are struggling to make it through the day despite being extremely hard working. Just because we put our plates away after getting done, doesn’t mean we are not polite. Indians respect food – however ridiculous it may sound to you.

When it comes to body hygiene, I will agree that Indians can be slightly on the off side . But I would like to bring to your notice that at the end of the day, every human lets out a stench, courtesy the basic functioning of the human body. The only difference is ya’ll cover it with deodorants and perfumes and Indians don’t. Fyi, an average Indian has a bath 2-3 times a day.

I would also suggest you don’t generalize. Make a trip to India and look a lil deeper and Im sure you’ll see that there is a lot more to Indians than their behavior in airplanes.

Carlos - June 26, 2014

NO, your comment: Slightly on the off side..at the end of the day. Really? this is not true. If you bathe daily and use some type of a deodorant. You will not smell, possibly after a couple of days. Quit justifying why your people — yes, YOUR PEOPLE smell. Because they seldom take a bath. Plain and simple.

PK - June 26, 2014

One of the functions of the modern Political Correctness mindset which Indians have exploited beautifully is the notion that generalizing about Indians as rude on planes, for example, is racism and stereotyping while dumping race guilt on whites collectively as “exploiters” and conquerors is acceptable.

India has been nominated as one of the most racist nations in the world due to how they treat foreigners and each other. India ranks #10 among Asian nations in tourism (despite being one of the largest countries) and only 1/10th the number of tourists that visit the USA (despite tourist visas to the states being much harder to acquire.) This is partly because India has a reputation of gouging and attacking foreigners and massive corruption.

Back to airplane etiquette: Americans have a bad reputation of being loud talkers and I make no excuse for them. It’s the culture and a certain standard of behavior that has become the norm. I wouldn’t say it’s because Americans are more friendly than other tourists although Americans have that reputation. The rationalization that “community” means people act louder is counter intuitive. In strong communities, children are instead raised to be more polite and considerate. It’s big city anonymity and rural poverty that tends to drive bad manners.

Travel is a stressful experience even for first worlders because they’re out of their comfort zone and under stress to get from point A to point B so maintaining manners is a challenge. If anything, a first worlder sleeping in a cramped airplane seat for 10 hours is probably more out of their comfort zone than a farmer whose used to riding on minibusses crammed with 40 people (I know, I’ve ridden on rural minibusses in the countryside of Ukraine.) It’s astonishing how despite this, the bus smelled reasonably good and everyone was quiet and well behaved, even the small kids.

Putting ones plate into the aisle to be picked up presumably by a servant, and then forgetting about it while others trip over it, is a simultaneous sign of low class behavior and entitlement attitude. I live in the states and when I’m done with a shopping cart, I don’t just put it in the area in the parking lot, or move it out of the way to an unused parking space, I take it back to the store. If you’re respecting food, you take the tray back to the galley and say thank you. Since I know the FA’s are busy, I wait with it on my lap.

(Some) Indians shouldn’t be so smug that some of them are now making money. This is nothing new in the states. There’s even a term for it: nouveau riche. It’s used by those in the middle and upper classes to describe those who have acquired wealth, but not manners or taste. There’s also a funny country western song: White Trash With Money.

198. restlessinmumbai - June 7, 2014

Interesting blog and an even more interesting set of comments. I am a 44 yr old male of Indian origin, born and raised in India, lived in the US for over 15 years, traveled on several dozen international flights to dozens of countries both in economy and business, and have relocated back to India for the past 8 years with extensive international travel. I feel like a “man without a country”, guess they call it a global citizen these days 😉 but feel I have a unique insight into such behavior and its perception from both sides.

At the outset let me agree that statistically speaking, we indians are an undisciplined lot and the OP’s comments seem valid from his perspective.

Also, as part of the “polite and well traveled indian” minority group, I have faced more then my fair share of ridiculous racial profiling and prejudices by cabin crew and ground staff in US, Europe and Middle East by the few idiots, as I have had wonderful interactions with a few Muslims, Jews, Catholics, Protestants, Buddhists and Atheists through my travels.

Having said that, following are my 2 cents:

I believe that most indians, from the moment they are squeezed down their mother’s fallopian tube, until the day they are cremated/buried in a crowded crematory/cemetery are always, always, always squeezed for space. I am not a sociologist, but I doubt if any other race or a set of people have been deprived of their personal space as much as urban indians have in their daily walk of life (i.e in buses, trains, malls, cinemas, theatres, social functions, sports grounds – pretty much everything including using the bathroom). We do not have the concept of white space people! Don’t curse us for it. Empathize with us instead 🙂 So pushing, shoving and jostling is in our DNA. It comes to us naturally. NOT pushing, shoving, leaving some space between you and the guy you are standing behind in a queue, now THAT doesn’t come naturally to us.

We are also a nation, where meritocracy, discipline, queuing, abiding by rules etc. is RARELY rewarded. Our trains and buses will start moving while people are still getting on and off it and thousands die every year as they come under a moving train/bus (The buses and trains HAVE to move, we will always have MORE people, so that is a separate discussion). We have to push and shove, it is a matter of life and death. Same applies when it comes to finding seats on buses and trains, and by extension (for first time travelers) on planes. So the whole mindset is, each one on his/her own, you snooze you lose.

You should watch us drive – again the mindset is…each one on their own. If you give way to someone, you could be stuck there for half an hour as hundreds of automobiles will zoom past you and wont let you in. I am not condoning it. But I cannot afford to park and wait until we evolve as a driving civilization 🙂 So the rest of us sigh and realize that if you cant beat em you join em.

We also understand our fellow indians very well. We understand that passengers on a india heavy route will invariably have more carry on baggage then what the darned aircraft can fit, so we had better get on board earlier so we can stow away our carry on first. That would explain the crowding near the gates having little to do with the row numbers being announced for boarding currently.

Another thing I have noticed is that the average indian is a wuss. They will bully other indians, but very rarely will they bully westerners or foreigners in general, especially outside India. Most indians are just oblivious of their surroundings, they dont MEAN to be rude. Again, I do not condone talking loudly or disturbing others on a flight, but they just don’t realize it. Most of the times, they do not even know that they are seriously pissing off other travelers around them.

We are not used to using words like “please” or “thank you” as others have pointed out on here. Our “tone” implies whether we are being polite or rude, its a cultural nuance that gets lost when interacting with people from other cultures and countries.

As a percentage of population, only now has the volume of international travelers gone up for Indians over the past 5-10 years. As we travel, and we observe other cultures, and realize the magic of queuing, white space, deodorants etc. we will imbibe it in our daily walk of life over time. This is not say that we live in forests or are all tribals, but we have not witnessed that queuing can actually speed things up and simplify things until some of us actually step out of india for the first time.

And next time you find yourself grumbling about not scoring that upgrade, or see a kid running down the aisle, pause, and remind yourself that the child probably does not have any place to run where it lives, no backyards here in the cities, or look at the omni present smile of the average indians around you as they take life’s daily hardships in their stride.

Until then, I will keep holding the door open at my local cinema hall while the audience empties out without anyone offering to use their hands as they exit, and you my friends, will have to put up with the average unruly indian.

Safe travels!

usha - June 7, 2014

Good observations and sociological analysis! I would only like to add that the other place (which felt so familiar and comfortable:) was the crowding near the gates at Shanghai airport. We start crowding when the flight is announced, there it was from the time they arrived at the gate! Needless to point out that only they have more people than us.

Merwyn - June 9, 2014

Spot on, took the words out of my mouth!

199. Sharma - June 7, 2014

the author of this blog is a pakisthani who is jealous of Indians.
Pakisthan will sink in its own shit..

fetzthechemist - June 7, 2014

Number 197, you are an immature moron who is a disgrace to your nation. Just because I complain about a few Indians in a certain context, you bring up the totally fictitious and irrelevant idea that all of Indian problems, no matter what, are due to jealous Pakistanis. Spend your energies in instead helping your new leader change your country to the betterment of all Indians.

200. Sharma - June 7, 2014

Hehee you are absolutely a paki. Pakis are so jealous of Indians and indias progress. Pakisthan a virus of human race..

201. Sharma - June 7, 2014

The blogger has some inferiority complex and he hates Indians. That leads to the conclusion that he is a pakisthani.
1. Pakisthan has no culture. Girls as young as 6 are married to 60 year olds.
2. Pakisthanis are cowards. India created a country called Bangladesh. the entire paki army surrendered to Indian might.
3. Paki knows only one thing steal, cheat and lie.
4. Pakis don’t take bath. They put on some perfume and smell like shit.

202. fetzthechemist - June 7, 2014

You disprove a contention of your fellow Indian nationalists who claim that you cannot tell the difference between Indians and Pakistanis. One or the other of you must be wrong.

I never met a Pakistani until I was in graduate school, they were much rarer in the US back then. Conversely, I never met an Indian who was not friendly, kind, and generous until these flights of 5 years ago. Dozens and dozens of very good people, and yes they still had their Indian ways of living – an Indian extended family lives 4 houses down my street. This disillusionment was one reason I wrote this blog then.

203. Sharma - June 8, 2014

LOL. You should be really be a dumb person ..In 5 minutes any one can easily identify whether it is a paki or indian or srilankan or Bangladeshi..

Indian name is very unique. Indian family can be easily identified.
The only overlap will be muslims. Again it does not take long for someone to realize a paki muslim from a indian muslim….

And also you had mentioned in your article that paki and srilankan are much better. Sorry Paki you have to see a physiatrist for your inferiority complex.

May be write a blog about paki shit people who are a virus on earth.

Nick Michaels - June 8, 2014

It’s this backward way of thinking, where you are at odds with your fucking neighboring countries, which explains the backwardness of the Indian people.

Racism exist in your country to the extreme, you even have fucking slaves for God’s sake and discriminate against people from different parts of the same damn country. Would you see somebody from New York be discriminated against in California? Does Germany and France hate each other? No. You can fucking march from Germany to France, without a fucking problem. Whilst you Indians are overly suspicious of your Paki and Bangladeshi neighbors. I won’t go as far to say that Indians are the real problem, but i’ll definitely say that YOU are a virus that just needs to be dealt with.

briscurry - June 9, 2014

Hey Nick, you cannot generalize one apple for the whole basket. However, if you are getting really riled, can I prescribe Dr. Tom who seems to have a soothing way of taking care of patients, albeit the rear end?

Should you want to see some fights other than India you could travel down to good old Ostralya when the State of Origin (Rugby competition between New South Wales and Queensland) games are on. The NSW and Qld fans would gladly murder each other if given a chance. No lovey dovey business like Noo York or Viva France or Herr Germany here 🙂

204. Nick Michaels - June 8, 2014

This is all so true..

205. tom - June 8, 2014

Sharma you didnt get it!! you dont read everything and seems to be also very lazy person. But dont worry read 186 and 189. same treatment like Pappu is highly recommended. Shock treatment shall be administered if there is no sign of recovery

206. tom - June 8, 2014

hey guys, you dont have to worry about Mr.sharma(last post 201)-for a while – he is going through some special treatment and resting. we have introducing liquids into his backside.. in medical term we call it enema. after that he underwent spanking therapy. he has now regained his own self and seems to have now become bit worldly-wise.
Though we cant rule out relapse wherein he may start calling our author “paki” etc. under those conditions and at material time we will give Mr.Sharma spanking first then an enema. sort of reverse treatment. we assure you that we will do everything in our control to domesticate Mr.Sharma and make him fit to live with the human race.

207. Akash - June 8, 2014

Finally I found a group of real racists here, who does research on Indian’s body odor. It is so sad to see that poor dirty Americans are trying to pour their frustrations in their blogs just because they lost their jobs to some Indians… 🙂 We can understand your feelings… Keep on smelling Indians and keep on writing blogs about their smell, but we will be ruling the world soon…:)

208. Sharma - June 8, 2014

I agree Akash. The game has started. Indians have started ruling the world.. Indians don’t worry. This blog is written by a Paki. May god bless India. Hail India.

fetzthechemist - June 9, 2014

If China decides India is a threar and starts borders wars again. India will lose humiliatingly as it has before. Then China will slowly gobble away northern India and start waging economic war. Good luck on that.

Sharma, you sadly will still live in a nation with a billion poor. I only get exposed to the bad Indians in tiny bits, but get to return to and live in the US, which has to be better or else all those smartest, best educated Indians would not immigrate and stay, wanting to be citizens. As they say, voting with their feet.

Merwyn - June 9, 2014

@fetzthechemist – Although you should be happy that your blog, because of this post, is coming up on Google’s organic searches, most of the replies are degenerating into India bashing which is not right.

I think we need to stick to the point & not penalize the country for the acts of its citizens.

209. Sharma - June 9, 2014

hehee the more you write it is absolutely clear that you are a paki.
A shit paki. China attacking India is a big joke. India will defeat china in 24 hours. One thing is clear you are so jealous of the growth , prosperity and wealth of Indians. In another 15 years India will be a super power influencing the entire world. hahaaa even today the paki dogs killed themselves. read the news. India on the other hand is a nation filled with great and intelligent people.

210. tom - June 9, 2014

Sharma escaped from our facility through a small opening he found near septic tank.what he was doing in septic tank is not known, what is known is that he was shifted to a room which is close to one septic tank.. he was heavily constipated .The spanking treatment has lost its ability to effectively control Mr.sharma as his wilderness is found to be “resistant” to spanking. we also used nunchaku in spanking but his wilderness continue to multiply in the presence of one and all therapeutic levels of spanking.
we also searched his room and found chines chopsticks and skewers (made in pakistan). it seems he was using these tool for erotic asphyxiation.
Sharma is also suffering from split personality and his other self is Akash.
sorry we give up. this nut is very tough to crack.

211. tom - June 9, 2014

Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure.

212. tom - June 9, 2014

full version for Sharma & co
“Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness, that most frightens us. Your playing small does not serve the world. There is nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people won’t feel insecure around you. We are all meant to shine as children do. It’s not just in some of us; it is in everyone. And as we let our own lights shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. As we are liberated from our own fear, our presence automatically liberates others.”
Marianne Williamson

213. Flyboy - June 9, 2014

I must make the following points – again, seeing as most people on here have lost track of what we’re actually talking about.

1 – Body odour (which, unfortunately, is quite strong from the majority of Indians I encounter) is of course a very difficult subject to broach. Indeed, it isn’t something that only Indians suffer from; we’re all capable of neglecting personal hygiene to the point where we could make others uncomfortable in closed quarters. And yes, any anthropologist will tell you that one’s upbringing and background play a part in the importance of taking care of one’s body. Having visited India, I can see that it’s a low priority for some people simply for the fact that access to indoor plumbing and fresh water is extremely lacking. And this in turn leads to factions of societies and countries that become used to it and eventually it’s not even noticed.

We were not built to fly long distances in a metal tube 40,000 feet in the air. So the experience is usually an unpleasant and tiring one no matter where in the world you live. It’s only in these conditions that body odour becomes an issue: someone may think, “I took the time to wash myself before this flight, why didn’t this person do the same?”

The reason, I think, that this topic keeps surfacing in this post is because it is teamed with the opinion that the majority of US-bound Indian passengers have of themselves and others. My interaction with these travellers tells me that they believe, most of the time, that they are better than most people – for whatever reason. (Refer to the bathroom for British / US Citizens in an earlier post of mine). Nothing that crew do for them is good enough. Nothing. They belittle crew members to the point of tears. They refuse to listen to any instruction. They are demanding, and throw a fit when they don’t get what they want. As a Westerner this kind of berating is difficult to deal with, being talked down to by anyone is bad enough, and this is only exacerbated by a foul smell from someone who thinks they are “better” than me. It is degrading.

2 – I am shocked and appalled by what I have read on here from some Indians. You are all clueless. You have no sense of how to behave in a civilised society; I need not mention again the plethora of examples of this already posted here. What tops it all though, for me, particularly, is where most of these people are going or living. The United States of America is founded on the idea that everyone is equal. It’s in the Declaration of Independence. So, how can those Indians on here jump to defend their countrymen who live in the US and as such think they are better than others, just because they “got out” of India? It’s a disgrace. My blood boils when I see Indian passengers holding US Passports and still adamant that they receive special treatment, who don’t speak English at all or correctly, and who have the gall to make 15 hours in the air so unpleasant. These people are not worthy to step on American soil. I myself have been brought to tears twice on such flights, and unless you have experienced it for yourself you will never understand what it’s like to work within the professional confines of your career only to feel shattered, undermined and disparaged by a group of people who barely know how to act outside their own country.

(Once again, I refer only to those Indians I have met. So that’s usually US-Middle East or Middle East-India flights. I’m not talking about the entire country, nor indeed the entire diaspora of Indians in other countries. One of my best friends in High School was Indian. I doubt he would ever act like his counterparts on board.)

tom - June 9, 2014

This Sharma and his friends are demonising some and making them wicked. mind you we dont have enough enema kits to cater for all. by this rate we will also need more station hands for giving spanking too.

Merwyn - June 9, 2014

Ha ha, Dr. Tom. I fear your skills would be more suited for the mind than for the body. Your dissections carried out through timely dissertations and administered ably by soothing enemas has de-stressed me to the point of frivolity even in such a dire blog.

Where there is a curry, there is an Indian and where there is an Indian, ok you get my point. Take it easy folks, its a blog after all, not life!

Raj Kumar - June 9, 2014

Kudoes to you. People continuously live in denial and false and pseudo patrotism!!!..I have to correct your data a bit. It is not about a group of people to/from MIddle East. You will find Indians traveling to US/Europe and other countries behaving almost in siimilar fashion.

PolishKnight - June 15, 2014

You’re not alone in your frustrations. I have worked with them as well and did research on how to deal with them as written by Indians themselves. When I have had problems, I found it useful to research how others have dealt with a situation to see if I could learn from others’ mistakes. Here’s how Indians treat each other:

When someone is begging you or bothering you and you need to get rid of them, tell them firmly “no!” and then put your hand out, palm up, towards them and turn away. Obviously, you can’t use this in a work environment but this is how they deal with each other in public. it should give you an idea of the how they are and to steady yourself for interactions with them:

For obviously rude people who insist upon bothering you, try ignoring or avoiding them. If you respond to them immediately (as you would to a polite person), they take this as an indication that you aren’t busy and have nothing else to do but please them. So I found it highly useful that whenever one of them calls me, I send it to voicemail. If you’re a service person, try to find something else to do. Be prepared: Just as they are demanding, they are also quick to complain about you to a supervisor so have a cover story ready (Note: They NEVER give praise to your supervisor for good service.) Even for the smallest complaint, they will try to get you fired. But if you cave in, they will treat you like a dog with a threat of a stick. This is how they treat each other and regard service workers as dogs.

However… they do recognize the value of being nice to those in authority. That’s because when they are in authority, they abuse it. They either demand bribes or harass their workers. I have a woman friend who was sexually harassed by an Indian and she got a 5 figure settlement. In the states, Americans know to fear the FA. The FA can kick them out on a flight for what is reasonable behavior. Consider the case of a woman’s 3 year old daughter not being allowed to go to the bathroom, soiling herself, and the FA and pilot threatening to throw them off because the mother insisted upon cleaning the mess up.

Look at this as kind of like the way the police cleaned up NYC with the “broken windows” philosophy. If you don’t enforce your authority over little things, they’ll view that as an invitation to become lawless. When the fasten seatbelt light comes on and they walk around in the cabin, tell them that as FA, you are telling them to sit down and if they don’t, they are non-compliant. Note their name and tell them the police will be meeting them at landing. Make sure other passengers hear. You’ll probably get offered a bribe! 🙂

If a tray is lying in the aisle. Ask who left it there. I know that sounds like dealing with kindergartners, but because FA allow this kind of behavior, then that only encourages them to become abusive of other passengers and the FA’s. The FA’s are like schoolteachers: They set the tone for the classroom to become a hall of learning, or a gang of hooligans.

Finally, this is what my wife who grew up under communism advised me: MOVE SLOW. As above, if you move fast, they view that as an invitation to drive you. If you move slow, it allows you time to think and also teaches them that your time is VERY valuable and also allows you to use other delaying tactics in addition. Delay, move slow, act like a mule.

tom - June 17, 2014

Good. but you are none other than Deepak Chopra.. you silly goose..upside-down turtle. Dr. why are you using PolishKnight avatar? glad to find you here. we could share some ideas here. its been 6 month or so isnt it when you last visited my clinic? i never got any feedback from you after that session.. whats up Dr.Chopra ..you silly loose horse

214. tom - June 10, 2014

Merwyn – June 9, 2014- I have a feeling envious resentment against your achievements, possessions and advantages you have over me in English.

tl;dr version

I am jealous of you!!

215. tom - June 10, 2014

Raj Kumar – June 9, 2014- simply means to say that an indian on plane is like Bo*b scare and same is omnipresent hence dont isolate middle east route…. and there are other souls elsewhere who have equally tested that caron’s poivre smell, mellifluous chatter, children of uni-corn.

And everyone is for taking!! dont shed your tears for few.

Well Rajkumar our scriptures says that we should reflect and give ourselves a second chance. Attend my one session. I will spank you on one of your back-cheek for 10 minutes and you will be alright to fly anywhere with anyone.

My cure is time tested and many parents have used it and have achieved phenomenal success. Though not advisable to husbands- some of them use it for very disgusting purpose and yell baby..baby!! in ecstasy…very very disgusting

216. tom - June 10, 2014

the demonic activities of tyrant Mr.sharma are slowly lessening and after carrying out mass exorcism this blog seems to be back on its track.

though we cant rule out sharma look-alike tyrant again possessing this blog, we do assure that we have kept sufficient stock of garlic pods, enema kits and strong willed station hands for spanking to cope with any overwhelming demonic situation.

happy blogging once again!!!!

217. banerjee - June 10, 2014

The blogger is a loser who has no life.
Tom looks like a perfect loser who has no life. Blog is generally for people who don’t have real friends in life. blogger generally have inferiority complex and in real life no one pays attention to them.
Most of the guys against Indians here are pakis and shit muslims who marry childrens of age 6 and big time frustrated cunts.
I would like to finish saying India is the greatest nation on earth. India will rule the world for the next 300 years. Indians are the greatest people on earth.,

Carlos - July 6, 2014

Loser bloggers? And, Mr Banerjee, you are on this website because?

Actually this is a good forum to vent. And today, my vent is to you.

No one is against Indians. We are against rude smelly people and dishonesty. These so far, from my view and experiences, are Indian traits. It’s not the gene pool or skin color. It is the consistent bad manners, rudeness, arrogance, sneaky, caste oriented pushy people that make up most of this sub continent.

218. banerjee - June 10, 2014

Tom give the enema to the stupid cunt muslims all over the world.

219. Caleb - June 11, 2014

I’m a Malaysian, and my take is, most (but not all) Indian nationals are smelly, intruding and brags loudly. Don’t take me as a racist because we have Indian ethnic groups in Malaysia too, and many of them are my friends and they are not smelly and have refined behaviors. My conclusion is, it’s about what you do to yourself to make it acceptable to the globalized society, instead of blaming somebody’s ancestor for something that is out of this topic.

tom - June 12, 2014

Caleb taking enema through small jet engine propelled kit is what you do to yourself to make it acceptable to the globalized society, instead of blaming somebody’s ancestor for something that is out of this topic and beyond the potency of common Laxatives found OTC.

220. banerjee - June 11, 2014

heheee lol lol,,, I agree Few indians can be tough to handle as neighbors. but overall Indians are peace loving and mean no harm.
talking of smell the Chinese and the mongoloid race are the smelliest.

The real problem in the world is radical Islam which is a virus on human race. Radical Islam allows girl baby marriage to 60 year olds, beating women for everything, blood shed all over the world is due to radical Islam. Christianity is a religion of peace. I request all Muslim’s to convert to Christianity.

tom - June 12, 2014

Sharma you are now disguising as Banerjee.

Note that we do have small jet engine propelled enema kit designed specially for a “highly constipated loose cannon” like you. we are all concerned. Come back to the facility. Dont give up. This jet engine kit will relive you and restore your self esteem.

You say few indians can be tough to handle as neighbors..
We say all your neighbors and people around you will get jealous when they hear sound of your “big Bathroom”. You can boastfully display your accomplishments to your few indian neighbors. call them over for a coffee and hide yourself in your toilet and of you go with your “big bathroom explosion” and those bhroom bhroom dhuuss dhuss trailing sound will send all those neighbors in frenzy.. they will want to know your secret .. they will all feel so inferior that they will beg your to share your secret so to get that ultimate “big bathroom explosion” and trailing bhroom bhroom dhuuss dhuss sound and .. then come out of toilet .. held your head high and address the crowd with this opening line “only enema can buy you happiness; getting spanked doubles it ..

Sharma cum Banerjee, The real problem in the world is radical constipation. girl baby marriage to 60 year olds boy senile, beating women for everything including adultery, blood tree shed all over the world is due to radical hard stones lodged in the intestine. Jet engine propelled enema is a religion and I request you to convert those radical hard stones lodged in your intestine into liquid and flush them out!! over and out

221. banerjee - June 12, 2014

lol this tom has some serious mental issues. See a doctor. but then islam does not allow visit to doctor. may be tie bomb around your ass and what ever shit comes out feed it to your fellow muslims.

222. tom - June 13, 2014

Sharma cum banerjee tyrant loose canon, this is why they say its “kaliyug”. you have no gratitude towards what my small jet engine propelled enema kit did to relive you.. soon you got your first “big bathroom explosion” and bhroom brhoom sound still echoing you are turning your guns against me????

If an enemy were insulting me, I could endure it; if a foe were raising himself against me, I could hide from him. But it is you, a man who used my small jet engine propelled enema kit, my patient, who’s back-cheek I once enjoyed caressing and spanking , who after taking enema started laughing hysterically before walking with tearing hurry towards septic tank. This is worst, most treacherous betrayal of all time.

But I will avenge this treacherous betrayal.. V for vendetta and C for chili powder. Haha.. you already know whats coming to you.

when no one is looking, I will secretly add chili powder in your enema kit and after connecting it to your backside I will put small jet engine propelled enema kit on turbo mode, too.

Sharma loose canon you will then look for converting to Prince Philip Movement religon
,

223. HarryCool - June 18, 2014

Truly written. Comments of other Indians trying to defend of attack whites in return are lame simply because of being off-topic! We are an over-populated, poor, and differently-educated lot. Accept it. These things will change (if they need to) on there own as the time for these changes come. Until then take it easy and have a good laugh about it.

Quite frankly non-indians will just need to suck it up as it is what it is due to various reasons.

224. HarryCool - June 18, 2014

Truly written. Comments of other Indians trying to defend themselves or attacking whites in return are lame simply because of being off-topic. We are an over-populated, poor, and differently-educated lot. Accept it. these things will change (if they need to) on there own as the time for these changes come. Until then take it easy and have a good laugh at it.

Quite frankly, non-indians will just have to suck it up and adjust to the nuances when traveling in a plane full of Indians (or any other place). It is what it is for various anthropological reasons and is not going to change unless a whole lot of other factors change, which will happen, in its own time 🙂

225. tom - June 18, 2014

HarryStool, where did you come from all of a sudden, man where are you and what … i mean who .. okay forget it.. but who ..okay bye

226. SKS - June 19, 2014

Most of the comments are true. Indians are not aware of deodorants. I have relatives who visit me and I have to politely and sometimes firmly tell them to use deodorants. Generally lack of civic sense generates from lack of education and enforcement of civic laws.

I try to travel business class for this very reason. Oh Lord have mercy.

tom - June 20, 2014

SKS I always try to travel first class or hire private plane. lets get down to brass tacks.period.

secondly your comments are not true. Indians are not aware of deo?? false. 20 spanks for you. 10 oral laxatives in one shot to increase your bowel movements to battle speed.

Thirdly, dont be so firm with your relatives. How smelly they may be or want to be but you need to remain calm. control yourself. dont run behind those smelly relatives with deo. dont push your smelly relatives too far. they are smelly but they are yours. what will you do if everyone leaves you and all you have is those smelly relatives- standing by your side and looking sheepishly at you – hoodwinking you. remember we get everything in our life that we deserve and thats why you have smelly relatives.

This is kaliyug. look at me, my patient turn against me all the time. Sharma is absconding now but look what he did.

so take it easy and make peace with everyone.

227. Dave - June 23, 2014

Fetzthechemist: Good stuff, your applications for the chairman of the Ku Klux Klan should be very strong after this article.

228. tom - June 23, 2014

Dave baby before you start shortlisting someone, take a breath and tell me:- a friend of mine tells me that one corrupt cricketer goes into heading function of a school and the school children are made to wait for 3 hours in hot sun till 50 of them went unconscious due to delay in arriving of this cheat and prolong heat. in spite of which, this culprits dares to announce on his arrival ” people should watch ipl live if they love india” . everyone clapped and said yealhhhh!!! haha you deserve this. enjoy!!!!

why go against Fetacheesemist :))) good that you have sharma on your side. isnt it great!!!!!

229. banerjee - June 23, 2014

This article is written by a PAKI loser and a muslim loser.
Pakistanis are the shit of the world.
A shit race on earth.
A muslim cunt. Please convert to Christianity.

230. Dhanyakacunt - June 23, 2014

I agree Banerjee Pakistanis smell a lot and don’t take bath at all.
Infact muslims as a rule don’t take bath. Where ever there are muslims there is poverty and suppression of womens right and child abuse.

tom - June 24, 2014

Sharma turns Banrejee and now Dhanyakacunt!!!!

231. Kcubeor3 - June 23, 2014

It has taken me since 9/11 to realize that civilized humans cannot understand Islam. I am just overjoyed and somewhat relieved that the world is finally waking up in time to see the rabid dog coming its way disguised as Islam.

If Bin Laden has done one good thing in his wretched life, it was to poke a stick in the eye of the world by bringing his radical beliefs forward and urging his followers to commit violent acts. It has taken some time for people to begin taking a look at Muslims in their own areas, but it is happening. The French and the English are beginning to ask themselves, ”When did this happen? When did 6 million Muslims get here and what are they planning to do?”

Approximately 33% of the world is Christian and 20% is Muslim, based on figures for the year 2000. The number of Muslims is growing at an alarming rate. Muslims immigrated to peaceful, mostly Christian countries in Europe where they had large families that were reasonably safe from the ravages of their own strict religious teachings. At least these Muslims were safe until the radical element migrated from the oppressive Middle Eastern countries and began exerting its power over the masses and started menacing the indigenous populations that took Muslims in and welcomed them over the years. The mind-control of the clerics over the average Muslim is frightening and total.

This problem is most notable in the smaller European countries such as the Netherlands and Sweden, where a backlash against Islam is growing because of the strict Islamic laws forbidding mingling with the non-Muslim citizens of a country. In short, Muslims do not fit in. They are not allowed to fit in. The religious leaders lose their total control of the people if those people are allowed to see and experience the freedom that others enjoy. This is why Islam loathes democracy. Democracy steals the power of the Islamic leaders. It gives the people the right to think for themselves and thinking people might start to question their laws. Free people will question the absolute authority and power of the Islamic leaders over every aspect of their lives from birth to often violent death.

These days, it seems that anyone who speaks out against Islam runs the risk of being murdered, as in the case of filmmaker Theo Van Gogh who was shot, stabbed, and then had his throat slit by a radical Muslim in the Netherlands. Van Gogh had made documentaries exposing the brutality directed at women under Islam. Now, mosques and Muslim schools have been burned and the normally peaceful Dutch are considering closing their borders at the very least and perhaps even expelling Muslims from their country. As one Dutch citizen said on a blog, ”This country is a free country but we can’t even speak anymore without wondering if some Muslim will murder us.” The hate and unrest towards the followers of Islam is growing. It is just a rumble now, but it will get louder as the killing and bombing continues across Europe.

A recent report on Fox News showed the hostility growing between the Swedes and their Muslim population. There are Muslim areas where firefighters and emergency personnel will not enter without a police escort because they will be attacked. Firefighters attempting to put out a fire in a mosque were stoned. The anger between these two forces in Sweden is growing and the most liberal country in Europe is contemplating the same action as the Netherlands. It seems Muslims feel their neighborhoods are not a part of Sweden anymore but theirs, to do with as they see fit. The Swedish government does not see it that way. In those pockets of Islamic rule, poverty is common, unemployment is high, and the clerics foment hate and point fingers of blame on the evil West for Muslims’ lot in life.

In France, which has the largest Muslim population in Europe, Islamic clerics openly troll the streets seeking restless young men to indoctrinate and send out to kill for Islam. They weed out the weaklings by having them view videos of the actual torture and beheadings of human beings complete with the screams of pain and all blood and gore of a nightmare. They watch Islamic ”snuff films.” This is what will be expected of them as ”warriors” of Allah.

Here in the United States we have a different set of problems. America is just too large for Islam to overpower by reproduction. It has also been impossible to isolate its followers from the American population and American Muslims are far less likely to follow the path of death and destruction. Here, they take a different tact.

Radical Islam is rampant in the prisons, converting the worst of the worst so that when they leave prison they are unleashed on society as pre-programmed, radical Islamic killing machines. On the outside they appear as average Americans which allow them to move about the country unencumbered and overlooked. These killing machines wait for their orders to kill and terrorize, cared for and protected by the radical Islamic element within our own borders.

Muslims live in the past where they had their glory days of conquest and power. They often refer to the Crusades, which ended around 1300, as if they happened last year. I am constantly reminded of Wounded Knee and American slavery. Wounded Knee took place in 1890 and slavery ended in the 1860s.

Muslim writers love to point out the Spanish Inquisition, which was an over-reaction to the conquests of Islam in Spain and was just as much political as religious. The Inquisition officially ended in 1834. What they fail to mention is that it was not only Muslims that were persecuted, but Jews and Protestants as well. Muslims always see themselves as the only victims of injustice in the world. Muslims also fail to mention that the Pope tried to intervene and stop the Inquisition but was unable to exert his power on the political machine.

We Catholics look at this period in our history with shame, not pride. Belief in God or Jesus cannot be forced on someone; it must come from the heart. Forced conversion is not done out of love, but fear. Islam can control one’s body, but it cannot control one’s thoughts. Converts that are forced will not stay with Islam. They will leave it at the first opportunity.

This is knowledge that has escaped the Islamics. As they condemn the Spanish Inquisition, Islam is doing the same right now in countries such as Sudan. What Muslims are doing in Sudan is far worse than the Spanish Inquisition. Humanitarian groups estimate that since 1983, an estimated 2 million people have died from war and related famine in Sudan at the hands of the Islamic leaders. Anyone refusing to denounce Jesus and accept Islam is executed. Rape is used as a weapon. It seems that all modern-day Islam needs is a coliseum with some lions. Trapped in the past, Muslims call the coalition forces ”crusaders.”

Since the attack on 9/11 here in the United States, the enemy has been exposed. The havens of safety in Afghanistan and Iraq have been taken from the Islamics. In its fury, Islam has made many mistakes. The attacks in Spain and in Bali and murders in the Netherlands and elsewhere have made the world realize that Islam is not just the enemy of America, but the enemy of the entire free world.

Some people were foolishly saying that America deserved to be attacked but when death came to their shores, they were taken aback. They had welcomed Muslims with open arms and this is how they are repaid for their kindness? Some countries are instituting laws that make our Patriot Act pale in comparison. Threatening tapes released by Bin Laden have had the opposite effect.

Instead of cowering, the world is beginning to look Islam in the eye and say, emphatically and collectively: ”NO! This will not be allowed.” If it was a final crusade that Islam wanted, they have it.

Carlos - June 28, 2014

A little off topic regarding Indians on airplanes. But thank you for your comments about the true devil of Islam. What a mess we’re in with these crazy religious zealots.

232. tom - June 24, 2014

i do have multi-connection jet engine propelled enema kit that can be used on 3 at a time.

Sharma cum banejee’s connection is always induced with chilli powder- to subdue his hysterical laughter. Sharma goes in outburst of laughter with no apparent cause whenever we try connect a pipe to his backside . The laughter sounds unpleasant and sardonic hence we use chilli powder which sends him into trance and keeps him quite.

Sharma is also very clever and goes with other names such as Banrjee, billy carson etc. this loose canon seems to have craving for pakistani kabab, mutton paya and nann which it seems he cant get – angered by this denial, sharma has developed deep grudge against pakistan

Dr. Diamond - June 25, 2014

Hey Tommy Tom boy…howdah!!!

I see you moving away from topic and enjoying shit…so here my proposal

lol…looks like Tommy Tom has the hobby of doing what he calls colon cleaning…Tom ..please come and clean mine as well…its nasty…but I know you can endure it…it has got tape worms as well…you can take them away as your fees for my colon cleaning…

what say? you can also use my shit in dressing your pizza …they are mostly green in colour…

must be yummy to you…but sorry … they are a waste to me…still better to renew it as your staple food 🙂

And do not comment on my Diamond, i wont give it to shit heads and do not keep it in my arse…my arse…nasty stinky arse is for tommy tom boy to lick.

tom - June 27, 2014

I already said in my previous post that some people registered to receive medical treatment under my care turn against me all the time. my feelings get hurt too.

Sharma you are now posing as Dr.Dimond .. what are you up to?? its very bad out there and you will harm yourself. we know its not your fault that you are using foul language.. this is only the reason you were admitted in my clinic. I was against your early release.

Dr Dimond we know that our spanking sent you round the bend but we have not finished treating you as yet..your left eye was still flickering

you seems to be very angry. it wont serve you no good using cuss words

return to the facility..

Dr.Diamond - June 28, 2014

unless you taste my poo and continue to taste it..i wont..i ate italian pasta last night

233. Tom the shite - June 24, 2014

hehee Tom is a muslim cunt.

234. Tom the shite - June 24, 2014

Tom the cunt you are muslin shit. its very clear.
pakistani kabab, mutton paya and nann. put in ur ass.

235. sawyer - June 25, 2014

Fetzthechemist! What a douche you are? Looks like you never had any sensitivity training before you were sent abroad? Wow! You are a shame to America!!

tom - June 27, 2014

ensure lot of fiber in food intake. exercise regularly. Moving your body will keep your bowels moving, too.

236. tom - June 25, 2014

sharma then banerjee turns Dhanya turns Tom the shite besides being billy carson!!

The way I figure, there’s really not too much future with a sawed-off runt like you. dang dang ting nang

237. Nicolai Sennels - June 25, 2014

If you think Europe will sleep through its Islamisation, you are wrong. Surveys predict a sharp increase of power to Islam-critical parties in coming elections in several European countries. This reflects the Europeans’ increasingly negative attitude towards Islam and Muslim immigration. This does not mean that the explosion of Muslim violence against non-Muslims all over Western Europe will stop, or that the heavily armed Muslim bastions that are eating up thousands of cities on our continent will start obeying secular law and authorities instead of imams and homemade sharia courts. Nor does it mean that Islamic terrorists will quit their plans to destabilize our societies with the use of bombs, poison, kidnappings, highjacking, train derailments, cyber attacks, political lobbying, etc.

What it means is that the final blow between Islam and Europe will happen earlier than many expected. The point where the conflict could have been solved through a full stop for Muslim immigration and refugees, crackdowns on mosques preaching the unrevised and thus unconstitutional version of the Quran, complete rollback of any kind of islamization, effective policing in troubled ghettos, repatriation of criminal and unemployed immigrants without full citizenship, decreased welfare for people unable to speak the country’s language, child support limited to two children, paid repatriation, and much heavier sentences for engaging in gang-related crimes, violence and rape (with the possibility to get a cut in the sentence if they emigrate to a non-EU country) without losing blood, sweat and tears fighting civil war-like riots and organised Islamic guerrilla groups was passed more than a decade ago.

238. Wolfguang - June 25, 2014

“Germans have grown hostile to the Muslim presence recently, with a heated debate on the Muslim immigration into the country. A recent poll by the Munster University found that Germans view Muslims more negatively than their European neighbors.

In August 2011, Germany’s daily Der Spiegel had warned that the country is becoming intolerant towards its Muslim minority.”

Quite rightly in my opinion, the Identaire Bewegung movement has stated that they believe in ’100% identity and 0% racism’ which nails the Leftist lie that being anti Islam is synonymous witih ‘racism’. The modern Germans have gone out of their way to be welcoming to others and slay the beasts that sullied Germany’s past, but this policy of welcome has been exploited by the followers of the ideology of Islam which now bullies German citizens, German businesses and German politicians.

Over the last 70 years or so Europeans have learned that it is not the colour of a person’s skin that should be judged, but instead people should be judged by both the content of their character, and the ideology that they follow. The followers of Islam come in all colours and therefore to attack the ideology of Islam is not the same as attacking people for the colour of their skin. To give a non-religious example, in the past many people openly followed Communism and the adherents of the murderous system of Communism were not restricted to people of one particular race. Islam, like Communism is an equal opportunity bastard of an ideology. Like the former Eastern Bloc nations had to be cleaned of Communism after 1989 and the post War Germans had to be de-Nazified, other European nations need to learn to both de-Islamise themselves and support those who wish to leave Islam and stay safely out.

We in Britain need to learn, as the Germans and the French are learning, that it is NOT racist to attack Islam and many wish to see a ‘European reconquista’ where the Islamic ideology is put back in the midden of detritis where it truly deserves to be. The Germans are starting to speak up both to and against their leftist politicians and that should be an example to us all. If the Germans can do it in Berlin, Hamburg and Munich, why cannot we in Britain do the same in London, Birmingham and Manchester? If the Germans are having to accept that multiculturalism has failed then so should we in the UK.

239. raj singha - June 25, 2014

what a stupid article. India is a mini continent with different races.
1. Punjabis consider themselves as superior to rest of india.
2. Bengalis think rest of india is junk.
3. Tamilians think they created the world civilization and language and they are best race in the entire world.
4. Goltee ( andras ) only want to settle in US by hook or crook.
5. Kerelaites adjust to where ever they are.
7. maratis think sivaji liberated the world.
8. kannadigas think they are best of india.
9. Biharis just want to spit pan everywhere.
10. UP walla wants to rule india.
and so on.
so idiot please stop generalising.

tom - June 27, 2014

11. Raj singh wrote this after doing big bathroom

Some guy - June 2, 2016

Regardless, they are still called as ‘Indians’. The fact won’t change wherever they go ..

Boon - June 2, 2016

Some guy sir, fact can change. Its all about perspective and level of constipation. today you have it but its all gone tomorrow because you take my enema. So fact keeps changing. Its matter of time that’s important. What you can’t change, wherever you go, is my patented enema kit. I am inserting 6 inch pipe in you

240. storm damage - June 27, 2014

Good post. I’m experiencing a few of these issues as well..

tom - June 27, 2014

ok.no problem.connecting pipe now

241. Kumar - June 27, 2014

Some Indians suck, I agree. And I am unfortunately an Indian

242. tom - June 27, 2014

2 spanks on back cheek after applying generous amount of astringent

243. tom - June 28, 2014

We’re no threat, people
We’re not dirty, we’re not mean
We love everybody but we do as we please
When the weather’s fine
We go fishin’ or go swimmin’ in the sea
We’re always happy
Life’s for livin’ yeah, that’s our philosophy

Chh chh-chh, uh, Chh chh-chh, uh
Chh chh-chh, uh, Chh chh-chh, uh
Chh chh-chh, uh, Chh chh-chh, uh
Chh chh-chh, uh, Chh chh-chh, uh
Chh chh-chh, uh, Chh chh-chh, uh
Chh chh-chh, uh, Chh chh-chh

Mungo Jerry

244. Lomar - June 29, 2014

The majority of Latinos do the same thing but worst! Their bad behaviors get so serious which extend to gangster crimes. These type of people must be stopped!

245. tom - July 1, 2014

we all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God…..

Lomar, close your eyes for 1 minute..try to experience calmness and peace..now dont allow Shakira to enter your mind ..you may feel little restlessness but control yourself…your mind may wonder into Lopez but control yourself.. no bad behavior from here onward which can get so serious which extend to gangster crimes;killbill.

You sure cant stop shakira or lopez getting into your mind..this is it…you cant stop these type of people… we all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God…..unless of course you make shakira readily available.. which no one can, hence I am not available to take up this job and reject your offer altogether.

One pat on the back cheek for you albeit urge for spanking it repeatedly

246. Indian - July 2, 2014

Indian- do agree some Indians suck, no table manners a bit rude and arrogant. thats the way they are. but trust me if you had to live in India you would know them better, they don’t say Sorry and thank you over an over again, but my friends they will be there if you call them at mid night. they offer tea and lunch to every foreigner or stranger visiting India. Unlike in the west where you don’t know your next door neighbour. It is a Global world, colour caste and creed does not matter. Embrace everyone and move on. Life is too short.

tom - July 2, 2014

Yes yes..Have to agree with Indian 224… Yes all foreigners should come to india only at midnight. we offer lunch at midnight to every foreigner visiting India. Even to every stranger midnight lunch is served.

Unlike the west where you dont know whats going on next door. and in the west they do all the time that dirty sexy thing. Global world indeed. we indians are not like that.colour cast does not matter.

Can they(west) offer lunch at midnight? Noway. Dinner at midday? noway. Breakfast in the evening? noway. Hence, embrace everyone at sight and move on.

247. tom - July 5, 2014

no offence … all fun!!!!

248. ngen - July 5, 2014

You write it so correctly. I have been living in India for some years now. I understand exactly what you are saying. So true.

249. tom - July 6, 2014

Ngeni if you want say “write it so correctly” then read Erich Paddy Merwyn briscurry Vishal’s reply above. besides writing so correctly their replies are valid & crisp,to the point and worthy.

our friend Fetachessemist:) raised one issue which is true but not entirely correct.

you actually want to say that you have experienced similar fate on plane but you wrote so wrongly when you said (to Fetachessemist:) that “You write it so correctly”. You will understand what I mean if you are member of MENSA.

this kind of statement could also land you in serious trouble from Jason Sharma who is out there sometime posing as banarjee,dhanya,Billy carson and roaming free with his partner Dr.Dimond- the side kick.

men do that dirty sexy thing=population is exploding everywhere = les schools= Less wisdom = no summer vacations=more sheeps=les choices= desire to escape= new dreams= travel by air.

Then Ngeni you get into some cross fire on some flight. You then shower “correct” on fetacheesemist.

Real problem is doing dirty sexy thing,without thinking through, which propels population.

250. Shahu Kulkarni - July 7, 2014

Hi, I am Shahu from India. I can very well imagine how crazy it must have been. And as an Indian even I am displeased in the manner in which my fellow Indians come across.
Sincere apologies on their behalf!
Couple of years back I was flying back to mumbai from London on BA 199 with a broken leg. So the staff let me in first and while de boarding they asked me to alight first and asked others to remain seated.
Every white man or some south east Asians on the flight obeyed courteously whereas my own Indians stormed the passage ways like a pack of uncivilised creatures.
Not only this they have serious habit of being indifferent to rules and are a social menace.
Honestly initially I hated westerners for calling Indians names but now after having been through the mess that Indians create socially, I cannot help cursing them as well.
On flight many of them blow their noses, dirty the seats….and many more instances of chaotic and unhygienic behaviours…..I no longer can blame westerners for these. Indians have carved out a niche for themselves in a negative sense.

carlos B - July 7, 2014

No reason to apologize for others. I do appreciate your comments.

251. tom - July 8, 2014

yeah no reason to apolomogize for others. I mean they do dirty sexy thing that produces lot of babies and majority of them dont get any education resulting in social menace and state of chaotic disorder, everywhere. and then everybody feels posh to push each other. Maharaj Kulakarni hope you understand this concern and please spread good word against doing that dirty sexy thing all the time- at least let them use protection.

Dr. Diamond - July 9, 2014

oh yea…tommy tom boy…where are you…last time in invited you…you ran away and started poking your nose in our people asses…oh gawd…again do not start saying that i need some spanking …lol…i think you need spanking…you naughty boy.

i think you are a by-product of a dirty sex where protection was not used and a little bit of shit went along with those cells…so you grew up getting a good taste for enema, astringent and some spanking…

tom - July 9, 2014

“Profanity is the effort of a feeble brain to express itself forcibly.”
― Spencer W. Kimball

Dr.Diamond - July 10, 2014

“Profanity is the effort of a feeble brain to express itself forcibly.”
― Spencer W. Kimball

Wow…thats why we say ” look who is saying “. Tommy tom boy, thats correct, the above quote is by Spencer not by you.

Tommy tom boy “The Hypocrite”

Dr.Diamond - July 10, 2014

@tommy “Tom”
The only vice that cannot be forgiven is hypocrisy. The repentance of a hypocrite is itself hypocrisy.
-William Hazlitt

Shahu Kulkarni - July 9, 2014

Hey Tom I wrote it bcoz I know how crazy nd imbecile our people act socially, not only in our land but at other places too.
But none of my comments stem out of hate….many guys here have seemed to addressed the fact and you are acting not as a victim of this stupidity but as a hate monger.
And just cut the f****** sarcasm out of your comments. ….I do not differ with you as far as the core issue is concerned, but if u just try to give me s*** merely because I am an Indian, the go to hell dude!
And last but certainly not the least, how funny it is when you ask a simple lone man like me to enlighten our society and sophisticate it, had it been such a cakewalk, then there were lot of sensible Indians who would have carved out a better society…I pity that you were not privileged to come across those respectable few, and if you did, you lacked brains to note them….takes one to know one buddy.

tom - July 9, 2014

The mouth of the righteous brings forth wisdom; but the mouth of the wicked, what is perverse.

Shahu Kulkarni - July 9, 2014

Tommy…you seem to be hell of a character. No offence meant… interesting words, but based on sheer misunderstanding!

252. tom - July 9, 2014

Shau Man just kidding man,..peace.. btw.. I like your thinking on this subject matter :)))

shahu kulkarni - July 9, 2014

Hey Tom sorry for getting worked up….appreciate your points.
Peace buddy!

253. tom - July 9, 2014

Shahu, look what happened with my fellow indian student in II tier engineering college in india- full story on quora.com

1)The teachers appointed were assholes
-no exaggeration, there were three kind of the teachers “house wives”, “diploma holders with no other option” and “the graduates from the similar kind of the engineering college in which they were teaching”.I had met a teacher of my school teaching in a nearby engineering college.

– The whole college environment was filled with the people who demoralized a lot.
– The fellow students, seniors and teachers never ever suggested to code, getting good marks in the end semester exam was the only aim of engineering studies.
(i know that the IITians call nobel laureates to motivate them but we had unemployed pass outs, who misguided us )

6)The college campus was converted into “a country having civil war”
– It was one of the common problems at my college, the locals had some regional political connections and every now and then ,they used to beat up someone. Even one of the student was killed.
– weird thing about the college, there was always strike for no reason. the college hooligans had an organised group and they would always group together and would start shouting in front of the gate, lock the college gate and won’t allow anyone to enter… no one would dare to ask the reason for the same, otherwise he would get thrashed.

9)The students knew the questions of the sessional test paper before the test-
-yes, generally the teachers gave the questions to the students. this was done by the teachers so that the h.o.d. never doubts about the hard work done by the teachers on the students.

10) before the external exams the students bought some shit known as model test paper called as “quantum”(a booklet which is very popular in uttar pradesh technical university).

– any one would get more than 70% of the marks if one memorized it religiously because the people making the paper also consulted it(i think so) .

11)The college didn’t care about the quality of any thing

– bad smell came out of the student toilets as the naphthalene ball were put into the staff toilets only.

12)There was no funding from college for any of the fests
– if the college can’t arrange for the naphthalene balls what can you say about the college fests.

13) The students were worried about the salary
-The students were very happy that they would become an engineer at the end of the college and often approached me at 2 am to ask me their salary, as they thought that I was much tuned in for such question.

14) All my class-mates ended up being into IT companies (TCS, infosys, wipro,accenture, patni computers, hcl etc) and think that they are an ENGINEER which they are NOT .

I shall like to explain this in simpler words.

Indian IT Industry constitute of two strong segments.

i) Services based IT Industry. As the name implies, the services provided to the customers are tackled by these companies. Almost 90% of the newly pass out Engineering Graduates are working here. These are termed as Unskilled Labour. They get paid very less and have very poor satisfaction level with their job. If a person is just ‘English Literate’ then he is Employed in this sector. The works in this this sector does not require any kind of expertise and thus almost any graduate can work here.

To decrease the expenditure in these companies, They(companies) have started recruiting the Non-Engineering Graduates in the recent years. The starting salary for these employees(not Engineers) is from 10K INR to 18K (per month or even less). TCS, Infosys, Wipro, Patni Computers, HCL, Accenture, CTS, Cognizant etc are the companies under this category. It comprises the works such as working in a call cetre, software maintenance etc.

To site an example, which I have read as a comment somewhere, the net increment in the Salary of the employees of Infosys in the past 4 years is paltry 6K INR and the corresponding increment of any government servant is about 4 to 5 times of this figure.

ii) Product based IT Industry. As the name implies, these are the companies which do the real Engineering work. They build a product(Software) and thus the Engineers working here are at par with the best Software Engineers of the world. The companies which fall into this categories are Flipkart, Google, Microsoft, PolicyBazaar, Amazon, Directi, Yahoo etc. The Engineers at these companies are really cared a lot. They are given several kind of perks and it is seen that they do not leave the company (at any cost). They are respected. The starting salaries for the newly recruited graduates is about 1-2 lakh INR per month. These companies are ready to pay these Engineers according to their expertise. They constitute for about 1-2% of the newly pass out Engineering graduates.

Generally the graduates from the Tier-I, II Engineering colleges make it to the Product Based IT companies(exceptions are also there).

Now, one can compare and hence decide the salaries paid to them(Employees in these companies). There are a lot of graduates coming out of Tier-III Engineering colleges in India, they are unskilled and hence deemed fit for the former type of of Companies. There are many, to claim a single job opening in any of the Services based IT company. The opposite is true for Product based IT company.

There is real shortage of skilled labour and hence the later type of companies pay its Engineers handsomely. They get what the Engineers in some other western countries might get. Taking into account the difference in the ‘purchasing power parity’ of the two nations.

Again
Employees at Services based IT company= Labour or Clerks or Technicians/ Poorly Paid/ Not respected/ Poor Job Security

Employees at Product based IT company= World Class Engineers/ Highly Paid/ Highly respected/ (the company would become insecure if such guys opt to leave a company)
18)There was no respect for the teachers at all and the teachers deserved that
– the students abused the teachers of the other branch and disappear as the two may not meet each other ever.(as they belonged to different branches)

20)There was a great effect of the ponzi schemes
– yes, there were a lot of bluff being played in the name of the ponzi schemes such as http://ebiz.com and Amway, A Lot about the fucking “financial freedom”

21)Students just asked their peers at the end of the exams “bhar diye ???”(have you filled all the answer sheets???)
– there was nothing called as good or the bad exam “whether you have filled all the sheets of the answer sheet was a greater matter of concern”. a typical u.p. board thinking.

25)only 40% had internet at the end of the third year(for facebook only)-
-though 50 % of them had the computer but it was used for watching movies or the porn stuff, i had showed them a great thing, that was downloading an ebook on their lappi.

26)There was no competition of any kind
– worst thing about studying there was that the guys preferred to ask “have you cleared all your subjects without carry paper, instead of asking the percentage marks”.

27)there was often a lot of theft at the college hostel
– a very common thing at the boys hostel there were about 10 incidents where the things were stolen from the boys hostel in a span of one year.
– i have read at quora that the IITians didn’t lock their rooms. (i am really amazed to listen about such a heaven where the people have such a value of “great honesty in them” )

28)A teacher was beaten by the “college hooligans (gundas)”, here college hooligans refer to the locals (with political connection) who had nothing to do with the studies
– happened once as the teacher was getting close to a girl commited to some hooligan.

29)instead of going to the techfests the students preferred go to vaishno-devi

-LMAO……true

(and confidently saying “mata bulati hain toh jana hi padta hai”)

(when there is a call from goddess then we can’t ignore it!!!)

32)The teachers didn’t respect the students
– while i was showing my project to my project teacher he, many a times said “bolo bey!!!” (asking to reply in a derogatory manner)

33)the students were not allowed enter the computer lab except the allotted lab timings
-true

34)the H.O.D of the computer science didn’t know word “tuple” of “dbms”

35)some of the students stayed at home and came at the end of the semester with a fake medical certificate
-i knew about 10 of them

36)The representatives of the I.T. companies which came to the campus had written poor review about the training and the placement department
– i had seen the review at mouthshut.com

37)the family member called me “aur engineer sahab( mr. engineer)”
– when you experienced such things in college, such a remark appears to be a abuse.

38)I never wanted to tell my fellow passengers in the train,what i was studying (while returning form college to home in holidays)

39)The students had written in their resume “basic knowledge of ms word/excel/paint”
– many, many of them had, they were proud of the fact that they are at such a point in life that they had to prepare a resume and the companies were choosing them over many.

43)the alcohol drinkers’ had a dangerous group
– once i had suggested a fourth year senior that he should stop eating paan masala(tobacco),as it creates a dirty layer on teeth, then he held my collar and said “saale tumhaare baap ka khate hain” (its none of your business)

44)gambling was the more popular game than counter strike

– i had seen my friends betting in ipl with the local villagers…..shameful

46)the external examiner who came to the practical exam asked everyone two questions from the set of six questions written, with him.
– this was very common , all the four year with a little deviation from this trend.

48) in the “internal exams” the table were covered with the answers to the questions which were to be asked in the internal tests (as it was hard to be figured out by the invigilator)

– before the internal exam started, the students used to come early in the class to write the answers to the questions they knew, as already stated

– sometimes the invigilators left the room as they wanted the students to cheat.

49)the teachers had spelling mistakes in the paper with which they came in the class to teach us
– not once but many a times, even some of the teachers had completed the course by asking the students to come to the class after preparing the next topic and explaining the fellow students and the syllabus used to get over.

50) the students bought some books written by some local author strictly according to the syllabus prescribed by the university and the whole book of operating system appeared to me as some book containing definitions “only”

51) all of the fourth year projects were taken from the pass outs
– as far as i know in my 60 students batch class none of them had prepared anything on their own, not even the “software requirement specification”

52) a day when a student was absent and the teacher asked about the reason for the same then he replied that “i was on leave”
– lmao

54)the teachers smoked with the students
– a very common thing that anyone can notice outside the college

55)i had to assist a teacher writing her resignation letter.
– as she had no other option, and she told me that she would increase my marks in the sessionals if i kept that as secret.

56) some of the students wanted to become a teacher in similar college
– and they gave the examples of the great teachers of the nation

57) the students used to sell their books at the end of the semester at half price, they were very proud of their intelligent step and thus handled the books very, very carefully so that it gets sold at the end of the semester, at a competitive price.
– and throw a alcohol party with it. very true.

58) a very common trend which is common in all the private engineering colleges of
the students were given the scholarships every year and there used to be some of the students with the nexus with the higher authority of the college and the state administration. they used to take some of the percentage of the commission in lieu of the perfect delivery of the scholarship checks in their hands. It was a big kinda business in the college where many of my classmates were a part of this gang. A very true info.
– almost 10 male students of every class are involved in this business.

60) my batch mates were never very enthusiastic about anything in life, very few had some hobby(almost 1 in 20):

-as far as i know my friends had no interest in the extra co-curricular activities, they preferred to sleep instead of doing anything(which adds a bit of spark to life)

-enthusiastic or an urge to know anything: their mind opened on the day of the external exam to mug up the points and closed after they had filled their answer sheets.

– and they made fun of me as i used to ask a lot of questions(which i later started asking on internet).

– one of our mate was caught clicking a pic of baby bump of our teacher who was a bit good looking. face-palm. ridiculous .

61)college placements: now came the day for which the students were studying since their childhood.
-TCS came to the campus in December (many of them were feeling uneasy that the IT companies have decided after looking at the quality products from the college that only one of them would visit the college) the question papers were sent to the email ids of the students which were to be asked from the students during recruitment. exact questions were asked at the recruitment day and many had got placed. this was exactly like the end semester exams where the students had to mug up the questions and vomit out at the answer sheets.

63) the diploma holders(who looked like beggars were appointed to check the copies of end semesters
– i still remember that one of the diploma holders suggested us in the class openly that “if you have a shop in your house then you should prefer sitting there as you can earn more there”

-my data structure teacher said that he had to check the copies of the mechanical engineering students at the end semester

-once our teacher motivated us saying that
“beta mehnat karo nahi to software industry mein jaa ke aisa lagta hai ki “naukari ab gayi ki tab gayi”(students, work hard otherwise you will be fired from job as i was)
as he had some industry experience and i was surprised to know that he was m.tech from iiit-a.

– i was surprised to know that one of our teacher was m.tech from bits-pilani, she never taught us anything.
-i am dumbstruck to see the poor quality post graduate students coming from such tier I colleges like IIT-B(we had one). i cannot find any justification for this fact.

64) the college used to impose hefty fine:
– as many students were not very comfortable to pay rs 80,250 per year, they had to apply to banks to get the money. it used to take a lot of time to get to get the sum. the college imposed the fine of rs 1000 for the same.

– the college never returned the total amount of the security deposit.

65) 30% of the students in the college were from the management quota that means the students had to pay a sum of rs. 4.5 to 8 lakhs admission into bypassing the state entrance examination.
-this was done very secretly, if a student wishes to get admitted to the college then he(with his parent) was called to the college head office in new delhi with the demand draft of the required amount and there was a camera in a room with a landline phone. the student and the parent were asked to enter in the room. then they were given the directions through the phone to show the demand draft to them through camera and leave the room. this was all highly organised.
(fee in iit-bhu is 27000 rs per year for b.tech)

-hostel mess- rightly called as “a mess”, there was only one point where the chapatis could be served from and there were no chairs in the mess, whenever there was a shortage of the chapatis in the serving container and the chapati was thrown in the air and who so ever could jump higher was able to take the chapati. (………tears in my eyes……….but these four years have really made me tougher than the any other engineering college student of the world………now an analogy can be drawn that what would be happening in the “services based i.t. companies” of india )

(BELIEVE ME OR NOT, EVERY DAY I FELT THAT SOMEONE IS SODOMIZING ME, BUT I HAD TO KEEP MY MOUTH SHUT AS THE DEGREE THAT I WILL GET AFTER GETTING RAPED WOULD HELP ME EARN MY LIVELIHOOD, A DAY)

Shahu Kulkarni - July 9, 2014

Tom I am impressed by the way you put the things across, and agree with you on every point you have elaborated.
I have no idea where you are from but your observation about India is realistic, no – non sense and down to earth. Great!
Apathy, social indiscipline,ignorance and a gross lack of very basic human common sense are the key factors that seep in every walk of our lives and result in a mess.
It is just like metastasised cancer that spreads to every possible organ and then one has a multiple organ failure.
I see our society parallel to the Cancer or tumour metastasis….The above mentioned factors invade and seep almost everywhere and then what we have is a present day Indian society which has a lot of room for civilising.

Shahu Kulkarni - July 10, 2014

Tom the so called prime institutes of India like the IITS or IIMS are nothing but shit bags….in last 70 years of their existence they could not even churn out a single valuable research. In addition to that government frames the curriculum for them and which remains same over a big span of time….and the bums just mug up the whole piece of topical crap and qualify as engineers…..that’s the story…..and many of these bastards don’t even know what a crow bar is and still they are touted as mechanical engineers in India…..and people drink this cool aid without any qualms!!!!!
Honestly our country is the worst option after likes of Afghanistan and Iraq to Iive in.
And the mind baffling explanation that we Indians have for such blunders are too hard to digest…..that is a insult to our intelligence. …no…butchering of logic, sanity and intelligence.
And the pinnacle of this insanity is when you ask them to have some grace in their affairs by citing the examples of Europe or likes of Orient they brand you as anti – nationals! Poor brains!!

Dr.Diamond - July 10, 2014

Hey Shahu Kulkarni!!!
Looks like you got loads of anger for your mother land and your fellow country men for they didn’t achieved.

I think if my fellow country men are like you, I will not be surprised to see people like Tom finding ways to disgrace my country. But I do not stand here to get a certificate from west or east.

Yes learnings are their and ups-downs are their. nobody is equal and everybody personally aim to reach their pinnacle in the life they got, so are the countries. They aim to reach the pinnacle. They see what they got and what they can get and try learn from it.

Shahu, I think pigs are better than you, who at-least try to eat the dirt which they spread.

Tom and author of this blog are not culprits, but you are.

At last its not about India or Europe. Any country or community, no matter how good they are for us or how bad they are, wont allow a traitor and a animal lower than pig, like you to be part of their heard.

Discussing improvement areas is one thing, but you are defaming your own country and country fellow men in your own eyes.

I can argue with Tom and author of this blog, but i cannot stand your presence because pig smells better than you.

Tom and Author are way better than you.

You low life Shahu

Shahu Kulkarni - July 10, 2014

Diamond do not preach me nationalism….i love my mother land and that is what is compelling me to highlight this point. Because of these mongrels we the legitimate tax payers have a bad quality life and are looked down upon just because we are Indians. How am I to be blamed for them dirtying the streets or producing loads of children….The area where I lived was considered to be heaven when we became independent, now it is dirtied and still considered to be among the top areas of Mumbai. ..so what is the story about rest?
And it is a well known fact that our guys create a mess and because of this an honest, decent indian bears the brunt for this….apathy towards traffic rules causes a life of innocent lives and this is rampant…..now realise that my admission of the fact is not to appease westerners but to point it out to a few decent Indians, probably like you so that it will be spread around and would at least have some impact…no matter how negligible.

Shahu Kulkarni - July 10, 2014

Diamond and i have mentioned about the way u r talking to me in one of my comments to tom.And I urge you to go through my comments completely before you make some brash comments….some ignorant fools proclaim someone anti national just because he throws light on your misdeeds, go back and read my comments carefully as a man and not from a prejudiced view point.
Is it not a fact that majority of our people mess up on planes, do not modulate their voice pitches, do not mind their kids…disobey the rules and litter….isn’t it a fact that our hindi film industry runs on plagiarism from Hollywood, isn’t it a fact that some communities of our society have reservations in government jobs merely because democracy is a number game and these communities are in large numbers?
why should decent guys be victims of this…..are you not aware of the fact that deforestation is rampant for wood trade and agricultural lands are exploited for ur banishing without proper provisions which leads to shortage of agro goods and prices of food shoot up n poor people keep on getting fucked. Are they not Indians as well? These corrupt bastards which are in large numbers are framing the definition of Indianness?….and obviously these are the major class except for few guys like you and me and likes of us who are privileged to travel abroad frequently. …now when westerners come across these scoundrels they will belive what they see….and similarly me. Now ask yourself about what is cutting india ‘ s image abroad.
and last but not the least, calling a 3 foot guy a short man is accepting the fact that he is short and not abusing him….It is just a genuine admission.

Shahu Kulkarni - July 10, 2014

Diamond sorry for some slip of fingers. ….i meant rampant deforestation and urbanising the agricultural land without making provisions for a nation’s food supply even when nation is facing a food shortage is a sin.
This makes food prices to shoot up and poor guys are starving.
And in those places,government sponsored builders are licensed to construct homes which are bought none other that kith and kinship or friends of government officials and not buy a middle class common India…poor are displaced, tax payed by middle class and other sections is used to pay builders and ecological balance shattered. …now it is the same story for last 60 years..
And a different point, is it not true that many affluent people do litter and when asked not to do so, instead threaten us to mind our own business or face the consequences of opposing them. And they have a backing of stupid majority. …They would beat u up in order to please these guys…..i hope you understand this.

254. tom - July 10, 2014

Am trying to be “Pictorially Correct”. Watch, this guy running in this hurdle race- needless to mention with an attitude “fuck this shit” = subject matter.

tom - July 10, 2014

i mean the guy in this race is running with an attitude “f********t” = subject matter.

255. The Indian reader - July 10, 2014

I am a crew for emirates airlines and i can say that gladly I know how to deal with Indians. They need a special treatment. Some you just can’t be nice to or they will abuse you. Some if your nice to they will be nice back. We can read the person now from experience (400 passengers each flight)

tom - July 11, 2014

But you dont need special treatment. No need of face reading of 400’s,too.No need to obey your contractual obligation or its enforceability.
All you need is to understand common causes of constipation include:
Inadequate water intake.
Inadequate fiber in the diet.
A disruption of regular diet or routine; traveling.
Inadequate activity or exercise or immobility.
Eating large amounts of dairy products.
Stress.
And as a last resort: use small jet engine propelled whirlpool enema kit.

256. samimot - July 11, 2014

During boarding on a trip from Osaka Japan to Dubai, I saw a Japanese family of three sat together. They brought with them Bento (Japanese lunch box), and put them in the seat pockets. Then they went to the lavatory. Not long after, an Indian family came and sat on the Japanese family’s seats. They found the bentos in the pockets, and instead wondering whether they’re sitting on an occupied seats, they ate the bentos.

The original owners came to the seat, finding people sitting there eating their foods, they went to the flight attendants and ask for their help. After being explained that they were sitting on the wrong seats, the Indian family left without expressing any apology to the Japanese family, that not only they seated the wrong seats, they ate other people’s foods!

No apology, no regrets..

Wilson - July 12, 2014

Hah hah…that was funny. Anything that is not locked or chained in India WILL be stolen. Most Indians are penny-pinching freeloaders no matter how rich they are: a box of Bentos lying on the seat means something for free.

Joe - December 1, 2016

the fact is you don’t know if they were Indians or Pakistanis or srilankans ????? did you check their passports or what

257. tom - July 11, 2014

During boarding trip to Belmont, I saw a Samimot in McLean Hospital attire with camel and a horse – all three sat together. They brought with them Bento (Japanese lunch box spiked with guntur chilli powder), and put them in the seat pockets. Then camel & horse went to the lavatory. Not long after,Samimot greedily eat all the bentos instead wondering what horse & camel will eat..

The horse & camel came to the seat and were shocked to see Samimot eating their foods, they went to the flight attendants and ask for their help. Crew explained Sami about his greediness, but Samimot incapable of understanding the humane language promptly relives himself on the floor(small bathroom) and goes for remaining benots held in his paw.

No apology, no regrets..

excerpt from:
Book: Chandamama,
story : Vikram & Samimot
Pants On Fire Press

samimot - July 11, 2014

..aaand they won’t evolve to be better people, as they ridicule other people views and criticism, and snap back in offensive manipulative way, like our friend tom here.

258. tom - July 11, 2014

Samimot if you think “ridiculed” except my deepest apology :))

pun yes but “snap back in offensive manipulative way” is not true.

tom - July 11, 2014

btw, Samimot could you please share something more on your experience on that trip?

how incredible it may sound but plz share it or let me know you have any blog. I just like the way you write.

peace

tom - July 11, 2014

your assumption may have betrayed yourself and in doing so it has pulled the wool over your eyes

that family you refer in your story may not be of Indian descent. This is because indians will never eat somebody’s Bento . we always carry our lunch box wherever we go.This is besides the fact that we already eat before leaving our home.
secondly, most of us are pure vegeee people-herbivores.

Indian would never touch someone’s curd rice leave alone Bento, gajar ka halwa maybe. people you refer in your story could be from some different country. mistakes can happen. we also sometime mistook a person of nagaland origin for japanese.

This is how your assumption may have betrayed yourself and in doing so it has pulled the wool over your eyes

259. samimot - July 11, 2014

Tom, I didn’t mean to offend you, but if I you think I have, I apologize. It’s just I don’t think your reply to my posting is appropriate coming from an educated (I assumed) person like yourself. It’s condescending yourself and those people you think you’re defending.

Back to my comments, that Indian family can easily rebound from that situation by sincerely apologizing to the Japanese family. I know that was an honest mistake, but by just walking away without showing any apology and regret, that was just like an endorsement to the stereotype.

tom - July 11, 2014

you mean all three of them went to bathroom at the same time? all three of them returned to their seats from doing big or small bathroom at the same time?

260. Kim - July 12, 2014

I don’t even know where to begin, iv had the experience of working for an airline for many years, i work with may different cultures. If we are to generalise the original post is absolutely correct i have seen all of it and much more where that nationality is involved the post just touches the surface. However I could go on to write out what I would expect to see on a flight with mostly British people, American people, Pakistani people, European people, African people and so on and all would have there distinct general things that stand out. I know what nationalities prefer tea with a lot of milk, i know what nationalities prefer black coffee and so on. I know who is arrogant, who expects the entire universe to revolve around them, I know who think solely of themselves and i know what nationalities are generally kind. All this is very general and there are exceptions in everyone. But on the whole if i have a flight full of any one particular nationality i know what to expect. The original post was a vent in frustration an it is completely understandable because it is the truth. All those getting all hyped up and upset about it should just relax a little and accept it for what it is a comment on ones travel experience and not a racsist slur.